Stop putting out ?@$%#^&@ CRAP!!!!!!

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Hi Darkfang,
--SNIP--
As for Primeval Groves, it appears that the book went to press using a nonfinal draft of the manuscript. We'll often use an early draft to mock up the layout for art orders, then swap it out when the final draft is ready. However, it looks like in this case the printer ended up with the wrong version.
--SNIP--

It takes a lot of guts to admit when something like this happens, and offer to suck up the costs. Honesty like that it rare.

My respect, sir.

--Tim Willard

 

[Ranger REG]

So, does that mean there won't be a drama-filled yet ugly review of Primeval Groves from Vraille Darkfang?

Bummer.

Seriously though, you should review each product individually, unless you see a repeating pattern coming from one company. Don't judge the entire network of d20 products based on a few. Granted, there are products of less-than-average quality. But there are also products of good quality.

Boy, if I had a d20 every time I hear or see statement like "I'm not buying d20 ever again because of product X!", I'd have enough to beat diaglo's truckload o' dice.

 

[Treebore]

I participated in the early stages of this book and I can assure you the wrong draft had to have been sent to the printers like previously stated. The people I was working with were very rules savy and determined not to put out a shoddy product. I know they are all just as ticked off as I would be that the final product came out like this. Like Mr. Goodman says this was just a huge mistake, but definitely not laziness or incompetence on the part of the people who put it together. They are sharp and were determined to put out the best product possible. I know the team feels horrible that the final product turned out this way.

Chin up guys and girls, you'll get your chance to set things right. A good start would to be to offer a pdf file to those who purchased the print book, so they can at least get the correct game info. As for the people who don't visit/use the on-line resources, I have no idea how to make it up to them. I would hate to be the person who got the wrong version to the printers.

 

[DaveStebbins]

I decided to begin writing reviews for the d20 reviews section. To be fair, I'm going to rant here, get a good night's sleep then write my review tomorrow after I calm done.

For my first review? Why Primeval Groves by the Wanderer's Guild and Goodman Games. I liked the previous 2 volumes so much (Monsters of the Endless Dark & Boundless Blue) I plopped down my 25 bucks sight unseen. Now I'm actually reading it. I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a sinlge d20 product unread again.

So, will you be reviewing the products you like as well, or just the ones that tick you off? I don't think it is a good idea to use reviews only as a way to vent frustrations.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

Hi Darkfang,

I'm sorry you're not satisfied with Primeval Groves. I'd be happy to offer a refund. Send back the book to the address below with a request for exchange or refund.

As for Primeval Groves, it appears that the book went to press using a nonfinal draft of the manuscript. We'll often use an early draft to mock up the layout for art orders, then swap it out when the final draft is ready. However, it looks like in this case the printer ended up with the wrong version.

Well, Thanks for the offer.

I'm not sure I'll take you up on it yet. Primeval Groves has a lot of potential, just it looks like it was a first draft & not the final version.

Apparently that is just what happened. I think I might have time to go through and fix the d20 rules myself (and the editing errors, while annoying, doesn't effect my ability to use it in my game). There is nothing in Primeval Groves I can't fix myself, I just don't know if I have the time to edit it all myself. I hate buying shoddy products & I'm relieved Goodman Games doen't intentionally release them.

Will there be a 2nd (corrected) version of Primeval Groves? I know in most cases d20 publishers only have 1 printing.

Will you post a list of downloadable corrections on your website? If so, I don't mind spending an afternoon with white-out.

As for my review. My wife has informed me we are going to the Ren-Fest in Kansas City this weekend. (I'm also trying to read MMIII). I wouldn't expect my review any earlier than Mon. I'll be sure to include the quick response Goodman games has offered.

I'd like to thank Goodman games for offering a refund & I'm sorry Primeval Groves has been a victim of this mistake.

Later,

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

So, will you be reviewing the products you like as well, or just the ones that tick you off? I don't think it is a good idea to use reviews only as a way to vent frustrations.

I intend (time willing) to write a review on each item I buy from now on. Previously I have tended to buy something, skim through it and never read it cover to cover. Writing a review will get me to not only read the product, but break down some game mechanics here and there. If I do that, I know I'll use more of it in my games. So it's more an exercise for myself than anything else.

As for writing reviews of products that tick me off... I bought Primeval Groves expecting to give it a GLOWING review. I was delighted with the 2 previous releases in the series and expected nothing less than a 4/5 for Primeval Groves. Part of the reason I WAS so ticked off. I expected greatness & was met with mediocrity. The higher the expectations the more intense the disappointment. (I guess that's a compliment for Goodman Games).

Having had time to think it over, I'm see the potential of Primeval Groves. Unfortunately, the balance between cool ideas (lots) and good game mechanics (little) forces me to decide whether it's a good investment of my time to fix all the problems on my own, or send it back (thanks to Goodman Games for making the offer).

Presently undecided,

 

[Greylock]

Bravo to both the publisher and the reviewer. I like it when folks act all grown up and respectable and kudo's go to both.

One question:

'Primeval Groves'? Not familiar with the product in the slightest. A link or sneak peek would please me. The title intrigues me...

 

[Phineas Crow]

Goodman Game's Primeval Grove Preview Page

I've been looking forward to Primeval groves for awhile now, I enjoyed the other wanderers guild monster books. While its disheartening to hear of the printing error, I still intend to purchase it.

An errata pdf with the final draft stats would be nice.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

'Primeval Groves'? Not familiar with the product in the slightest. A link or sneak peek would please me. The title intrigues me...

The third book in the Wanderer's Guild Guides to Monsters. The First, Monsters of the Endless Dark dealt with underground creatures. The Second, Monsters of the Boundless Blue dealt with aquatic creatures.

This third volume deals with Plant Creatures, but also has chapters for 'normal' plants, some new clases and new magic. As this thread details, this 3rd volume suffered from some unseen mistake and has a host of problems.

For more info see http://www.goodman-games.com/index.php

or http://www.wanderersguild.com/

Hope that helps!

 

[Greylock]

Ahhh, thanks to both of you. My FLGS has that title, but it was nothing more than a cover and jacket blurb to me, as my FLGS encases every book in polyfilm (not arguing their reasons). Missed the connect on the title.

Looking forward to the review. If it goes well, beyond the necessary errata, I'll pick it up.

Thanks...