Stop putting out ?@$%#^&@ CRAP!!!!!!

[francisca]

man.. i didn't realize youse guys were so close. i can take Moreland and be there in like 10 mins.

Joeseph:
Whatever you do, if Diaglo shows up, DON'T FEED HIM!!!!! He'll never go away!

 

[Ranger REG]

As for writing reviews of products that tick me off... I bought Primeval Groves expecting to give it a GLOWING review.

"Expecting to give..."???

:\

To steal from Simon Cowell, "Don't take this the wrong way but" ... you want to write only good reviews for every products you're putting down your own money?

So, where's the impartiality?

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

Joe, you continue to be a class act, and the nicest guy in the game industry I've ever met, or worked with.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

Wow, I'd have picked some up. For 4 bucks most books are worth it....even the Fast Forward books have some good ideas in them, easily 4 bucks worth.....

For $4 I could get a triple venti breve latte at Starbucks and have 23 cents left over.

I could drop it in the donations box to The Diabetes Association of America.

I could pick up a couple used novels with literally hours of entertainment.

$4.00 would buy 12 cans of catfood for my cat.

FFE book can't compete with that!

As for Goodman Games: They are on my short list of "Must Buys"; I love the Aerial Adventure Guide, Dragonmech, and the dungeon crawl clasics. Don't slam the company for one book!

 

[DlofSith69]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is absolute class. That's a perfect example of why these guys impress me.

You have my sympathies, Joseph. That absolutely stinks. I think the only thing to do is to get an errata out as soon as you can, and let fans know about the problem.

Ditto.

I have enjoyed all of their products so far. They have even earned a spot on my buy without preview list. I just picked up Primeval Groves, but haven't had a chance to look at it yet. Thanks for the info.

 

[Gez]

To steal from Simon Cowell, "Don't take this the wrong way but" ... you want to write only good reviews for every products you're putting down your own money?

So, where's the impartiality?

No, I think what he wants is to only put down his own money for products he would write favorable reviews off. If it makes sense.

 

[mmu1]

Not to sound too cynical, but does that mean Goodman games is going to be making the same generous offer to everyone else who bought that book, by, say, making an annoucement on their website?

Making the offer here is good PR, but it doesn't solve the problem for everyone else who got stuck paying money for a draft.

 

[woodelf]

For my first review? Why Primeval Groves by the Wanderer's Guild and Goodman Games. I liked the previous 2 volumes so much (Monsters of the Endless Dark & Boundless Blue) I plopped down my 25 bucks sight unseen. Now I'm actually reading it. I will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a sinlge d20 product unread again.

Crap. Useless. I don't know what editon they used by it wasn't 3.5 (or 3.0). Has every d20 publisher fired their editors? Almost every monster has SERIOUS flaws in its d20 write up. Then there's the editing. Or lack thereof.

How bad?

Monster 1: Briar Golem

Incorrect Full Attack. Listed at 2 slams +15; should be 2 slams +10 (-1 size, +6 BAB, +5 Str).

Incorrect Will Save. Listed at +6; Should be +1 (+2 Base, -1 Wis).

Monster 2. Craspederbii

Incorrect hp total. Listed as 2d8+4 (15). Average is 13, not 15.

Incorrect BAB/Grapple. Listed at +2/-5. Should be +1/+4 (+1 BAB, +3 Str).

Incorrect Attack & Full Attack. Listed at +5. Should be +4 (due to incorrect BAB).

Incorrect Ref & Will saves. Listed at +1 & -3. Should be +0 (+0 Base, +0 Dex) & -5 (+0, -5 Wis).

Incorrect Skills. It has none listed, but has 5 skill points (2 base -4 Int, minimum of 1/lvl, so 1x4 at 1st HD +1 for 2nd HD.

Monster 3. Dequalm.

Incorrect BAB/Grapple. Listed at +3/-2. Should be +2/-3 (-4 size, +2 BAB, -1 Str).

Incorrect Damage Total. Listed at 1d4. Should be 1d4-1 (Str mod of -1).

Incorrect Will Save. Listed at +6. Should be +4 (+1 Base, +1 Wis, +2 Iron Will).

I'll stop there. 3 up, 3 down. Not a correct one. Most of the others are just as bad, if not worse.

You're kidding, right? Each of the monsters you look at has 3 stats off by a few points, and the book is "Crap. Useless." Even assuming every monster had such errors, would it really be that big of a deal? First, if you can identify the errors that easily, you can just fix them. Hell of a lot less effort than statting up the creature from scratch to begin with, much less inventing the monster in the first place. Secondly, if you, like me, wouldn't even notice the errors, then they hardly matter. And, no, i don't think that means you now "have to" double-check every stat. If one jumps out at you as questionable, check it. If it doesn't, it must be close enough.

Yes, in a good review, it deserves mentioning that the numbers don't follow the standards. But i also hope you review the monsters, too, when you review it: i want to know if the monsters are cool, not if their stats are "correct". If i like the monsters, i might change the stats anyway. And i don't think i'm the only one.

Oh, and how is the actual editing? Not the rules number-crunching, but the editing--typos, complete sentences, missing words, etc.?

But why are you looking at a book like Primeval Groves if the numbers are the most important part to you? Primeval Groves is so cool because of all the *other* words on the page, not the stat blocks. Buy a monster book that's got lots of crunch, and minimal fluff (the WotC ones), if that's what you want.

 

[woodelf]

As for Primeval Groves, it appears that the book went to press using a nonfinal draft of the manuscript. We'll often use an early draft to mock up the layout for art orders, then swap it out when the final draft is ready. However, it looks like in this case the printer ended up with the wrong version.

So, do the editing errors only effect the game stats, or is the "real" content gonna by noticably compromised, too? Typos/grammar errors, etc. are no big deal--annoying, but i can just read through them. But if significant revisions to the actual content were implemented between the draft that was printed and the final draft....

Too bad it'd be this one--i passed on the superb-looking first two books in the series, because i just wasn't interested in underground or aquatic creatures. I'm really into plant monsters. Just one of those things.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

To steal from Simon Cowell, "Don't take this the wrong way but" ... you want to write only good reviews for every products you're putting down your own money?

So, where's the impartiality?

That is not what I'm saying. I'm saying when I buy something, whether sandwich, RPG, novel, car or house, that I expect to have spent my money wisely. Therfore I expect to get good value from my purchases. This SHOULD mean that my reviews should be on the good side. However, if I buy something, even something I really like, I'm capable of writing a fair review. I realize some wierd mechanic I love might not work well with other gaming styles.

I EXPECT to only write good reviews becasue I EXPECT to only buy good products. Looking at what's sitting on my RPG shelf, DVD shelf, & Videogame shelf, I know I'm going to buy my share of stinkers. Thus, while I go into reading a product I buy favorably, I know it won't end up that way.

Also, I'm doing this, partly to become a better observor. I hope to be able to write impartial, fair reviews. The reviewers they have at ENWorld are very good. I don't want to try to praise a poor product as a great one, or condemn a good product as a bad one. I can advoid doing that. Its all the average ones that are hard to sift through. I know the more reviews I read the more informed my decision to buy it.

Thanks,