Stop telling me to boycott WotC. If you support open gaming, tell who to support. (+ thread)

[Voadam]

Exactly. That's why I wanted a thread that focused on providing a list of companies offering truly open licenses that are not entangled in the WotC OGL.

I think your thread title is working counter to that goal.

Based on the title I came on here to point out the Favorite 5e OGL thread thinking it would be on topic for recommendations on who to support.

Flagging in the thread title that you are specifically looking for irrevocable open license games might give you better results.

 

[MNblockhead]

I think your thread title is working counter to that goal.

Based on the title I came on here to point out the Favorite 5e OGL thread thinking it would be on topic for recommendations on who to support.

Flagging in the thread title that you are specifically looking for irrevocable open license games might give you better results.

Fair criticism. Don't think I can change it now. But as poorly worded as it is, at least was made aware of several games released with CC BY, which is cool.

 

[aramis erak]

Unfortunately unless wizards in a fit of madness lisences their 3.5 and 5ed srds under this new scheme, most owners of existing OGL licensed content cannot help out with quickly growing this new open license repository by just relisencing their work, as they need to make sure that they do not contain any material that can be argued to have been licensed from wizards via OGL.

The OGL 1.0a is, itself, a licensed document under the OGL 1.0a, albeit a different section.

 

[Jerik]

A few other open games I haven't seen mentioned (though maybe they were and I missed them):

• Dominion Rules - AFAIK the first RPG to be released under an open license, predating the OGL; now available for free online (though you can buy a print copy on Lulu if you want to support the creators)
• EABA - Sort of similar to the HERO/Champions system; includes a custom Open Supplement License
• FantasyCraft - Not currently in print, but available in PDF form from DriveThruRPG. (The company is still around, but currently focusing on other things, though there's talk of a new edition eventually.) Licensed by the OGL 1.0, though, so might be in trouble.
• Open Legend - An "open source RPG". I haven't really looked into this one, so I can't say much about it except that it exists.
• What's OLD is NEW - A bit surprised not to see this one mentioned here, since it's actually published by EN Publishing. Again, though, it's released under the OGL 1.0—but AFAIK it doesn't use any WotC SRD content, so that can presumably be changed.
• The Wanton Role-Playing System - The system behind the Over the Edge RPG has now been released as open content—though, again, under the OGL 1.0, but again it doesn't have any WotC SRD content.
• Myriad RPG System - Advertises itself a toolbox rather than a self-contained RPG, but explicitly says "you can incorporate Myriad into your own books and products free of charge, even for commercial ventures".

This isn't exhaustive; there are, for instance, a lot of small indie RPGs on itch.io that explicitly grant the right for anyone to make supplements based on them.

 

[Umbran]

So I would appreciate it if someone would stop repeating why I shouldn't support WotC and tell me which companies offer truly open gaming content, hopefully with licenses that avoid the ambiguity in the WotC licenses.

While small companies will always welcome sales, buying a couple of products right now will not strike a notable blow for open gaming.

If the OGL v1.1 turns out to be as bad as some fear, there will be lawsuits. There will be crowdfunding by small companies to fund their legal actions/defenses. That would have greater impact than buying a rulebook before the license is finalized.

Which is to say, yes, support open content, but we are near a point where the best way to do that may be more direct.

 

[aramis erak]

FUDGE was released under an open license in the 90's... ISTR GNU-FDL... later under some other non-OGL.

That said, Seconding Umbran's advice: wait for the lawsuits and contribute to defense of the 1.0a.

After reading this thread I feel like I should support WoTC.

If they''re able to force the 1.1 on the industry, every OGL product will support WotC.
They're making the smart business move from the corporate view, but at the expense of reputation, and quite likely, a large part of the fanbase.

 

[Jd Smith1]

That said, Seconding Umbran's advice: wait for the lawsuits and contribute to defense of the 1.0a.

Sorry, I've chosen my side.

If they''re able to force the 1.1 on the industry, every OGL product will support WotC.
They're making the smart business move from the corporate view, but at the expense of reputation, and quite likely, a large part of the fanbase.

I think it would be a good thing if WotC prevails. I think it would push writers to seek out innovative avenues, rather than coming up with ever more bolt-on addendum to 5e or stale D&D clones.

 

[Randomthoughts]

I'm hoping this OGL Fiasco will result in at least a few game systems becoming more popular. I remember a time when Storyteller (Vampire) seemed to eclipse D&D for awhile. Personally, I am completely enamored with SWADE right now. It's hitting the right level of crunch and story elements I tend to like. Cortex is another one - simple and crazy robust to capture so many different genres - but it has been floundering of late unfortunately.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I keep looking at alternative systems and finding them using the OGL 1.0, which hampers my ability to recommend things like the truly wonderful Beyond the Wall. Here's hoping a bunch of them go ORC as soon as possible.

 

[Blue]

Please include OGL games - otherwise you are furthering WotC's goals.

There are a bunch of companies willing to fight in court Hasbro's interpretation of the OGL, so a game being OGL shouldn't remove it from the list of what people should play besides D&D. We're not anti-OGL, we're anti-WotC trying to pervert the OGL. We explicitly don't want to boycott game systems that use the OGL from other publishers, they are already having enough trouble.

Anyway, being against the OGL is a lot bigger than that. You'd be throwing out the baby with the bathwater - some other Open Gaming Licenses could have the same problem. People were looking sideways at Cypher System Open License because it was based on the OGL and also didn't contain the word irrevocable. (And the OGL was based on GPLv2, which also didn't.) Not that this should be taken as a a sign of wrong-doing - everyone assumed the OGL was a safe harbor for two decades.

So, please include OGL games in what you will play, since otherwise you are following WotC's agenda.

Also just to be clear, what games out there have other licenses are wholy separate from telling people to boycott. If you only boycott when you have a convenient alternative and won't boycott if it means actual sacrifice, that's says something about the person who won't hold their ideals over their leisure.

 

[overgeeked]

Please only post TTRPG companies publishing content under licenses at least as open as WotC's OGLs and which are not using any of the WotC OGLs. Completely separate systems under their own licenses that will not be affected by anything WotC does with its OGLs.

Apocalypse World and various PbtA games.

Numenera and the Cypher System.

Savage Worlds and Fate.

 

[MNblockhead]

With all that's going on with ORC, it looks like there may soon be over a thousand games that would have to be listed here.

 

[MNblockhead]

Please include OGL games - otherwise you are furthering WotC's goals.

There are a bunch of companies willing to fight in court Hasbro's interpretation of the OGL, so a game being OGL shouldn't remove it from the list of what people should play besides D&D. We're not anti-OGL, we're anti-WotC trying to pervert the OGL. We explicitly don't want to boycott game systems that use the OGL from other publishers, they are already having enough trouble.

Anyway, being against the OGL is a lot bigger than that. You'd be throwing out the baby with the bathwater - some other Open Gaming Licenses could have the same problem. People were looking sideways at Cypher System Open License because it was based on the OGL and also didn't contain the word irrevocable. (And the OGL was based on GPLv2, which also didn't.) Not that this should be taken as a a sign of wrong-doing - everyone assumed the OGL was a safe harbor for two decades.

So, please include OGL games in what you will play, since otherwise you are following WotC's agenda.

Also just to be clear, what games out there have other licenses are wholy separate from telling people to boycott. If you only boycott when you have a convenient alternative and won't boycott if it means actual sacrifice, that's says something about the person who won't hold their ideals over their leisure.

I'll play whatever games I can buy or get free legally, enjoy, and can find other people to play with. Since that includes 5e regardless of how the OGL stuff shakes out, I'm probably "furthering WotC's goals". My purpose in starting this thread was to see what other games are truly releasing games under open game licenses as alternatives to the WotC one, which is currently the source of much uncertainty. Further, if you want to support open gaming, it seems to me that it would be better to create a new open gaming license that addresses the source of uncertainty in the WotC one.

I find the work on ORC and other alternative open-gaming licenses that companies are putting out to be interesting. WotC putting out a CC license is also interesting, though it still is a clawback and the harmful content provision makes it not truly open from my perspective. While I have empathy for all the companies that have relied on the OGL all these years, I am cautiously optimistic that a lot of good may come out of WotC's blowing up the OGL. While I have purchased and enjoyed a lot of third-party content for D&D, it would be nice to see even more variety of systems supporting open gaming.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I'll play whatever games I can buy or get free legally, enjoy, and can find other people to play with. Since that includes 5e regardless of how the OGL stuff shakes out, I'm probably "furthering WotC's goals". My purpose in starting this thread was to see what other games are truly releasing games under open game licenses as alternatives to the WotC one, which is currently the source of much uncertainty. Further, if you want to support open gaming, it seems to me that it would be better to create a new open gaming license that addresses the source of uncertainty in the WotC one.

I find the work on ORC and other alternative open-gaming licenses that companies are putting out to be interesting. WotC putting out a CC license is also interesting, though it still is a clawback and the harmful content provision makes it not truly open from my perspective. While I have empathy for all the companies that have relied on the OGL all these years, I am cautiously optimistic that a lot of good may come out of WotC's blowing up the OGL. While I have purchased and enjoyed a lot of third-party content for D&D, it would be nice to see even more variety of systems supporting open gaming.

Exactly!

As a d100 user, it would be nice to see more love for that vastly superior system.

 

[Arilyn]

Index Card RPG. Author states in book you are free to use it and make money. Has a very supportive community and site where ideas and content are shared.

 

[BlueFin]

I have yet to see any valid reason to boycott any game company. But I don't play D&D, and have avoided d20 systems.

Yikes, so trying to takeover and control the whole hobby and industry isn’t enough of a reason? That’s …. a stratospherically high bar you have there.

 

[BlueFin]

If you only boycott when you have a convenient alternative and won't boycott if it means actual sacrifice, that's says something about the person who won't hold their ideals over their leisure.

Boom …. completely true. Sadly, many people’s values fail in the face of discomfort or inconvenience

 

[Jd Smith1]

Yikes, so trying to takeover and control the whole hobby and industry isn’t enough of a reason? That’s …. a stratospherically high bar you have there.

They're trying to take over the d20 portion of it. I don't play d20. But even if I did, dominating market share is every business' goal.

So WotC trying to do what businesses should be doing doesn't concern me.

World hunger, on the other hand, rates some consideration, IMO.

 

[Anon Adderlan]

The OGL 1.0a is, itself, a licensed document under the OGL 1.0a, albeit a different section.

It's also now under CC-BY by virtue of being part of the 5.1 SRD

I think it would be a good thing if WotC prevails. I think it would push writers to seek out innovative avenues, rather than coming up with ever more bolt-on addendum to 5e or stale D&D clones.

Thing is it's an open game license, not a "5e and stale D&D clone" license, which you should know given the numerous non D20 games which have been mentioned...

Exactly!

As a d100 user, it would be nice to see more love for that vastly superior system.

...including both BRP and Eclipse Phase.

I'm hoping this OGL Fiasco will result in at least a few game systems becoming more popular. I remember a time when Storyteller (Vampire) seemed to eclipse D&D for awhile. Personally, I am completely enamored with SWADE right now. It's hitting the right level of crunch and story elements I tend to like. Cortex is another one - simple and crazy robust to capture so many different genres - but it has been floundering of late unfortunately.

Vampire's success was due almost entirely to the goth subculture which existed at the time, and is unlikely to be repeated. I'm warming up to SWADE myself, but it doesn't have an open license, has not committed to using the ORC, and they've ignored marginalized voices too often for my tastes. Cortex is sadly doomed as its new owner is no more likely to release it under an open license than the old one, and the old one wasn't even willing to charitably license it for Into The Motherlands, which would have net them more than they lost in the long run.

please include OGL games in what you will play, since otherwise you are following WotC's agenda.

Indeed.

On the other hand their threats have resulted in a gold rush for such products.

Apocalypse World and various PbtA games.

Numenera and the Cypher System.

Savage Worlds and Fate.

None of these are under an open game license.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Thing is it's an open game license, not a "5e and stale D&D clone" license, which you should know given the numerous non D20 games which have been mentioned...

You missed my point.

...including both BRP and Eclipse Phase.

I prefer CoC 7E over BRP, but it is a system that is a bit unwieldly at best; good for its setting, but not very flexible. Eclipse Phase isn't worth using.