Strength based monks?

[Nazhkandrias]

At the end of the day tripping and grappling are about griefing your opponent, forcing them to waste precious actions dealing with you. You disrupt the enemy's rythm while your fighter or barbarian friend brings the pain.

Don't forget the AoO an opponent takes by standing up from prone. You can either take the extra damage, or use the time to move away. Regardless, it's always a good strategy. And grappling can be an incredibly lethal strategy for a Str-based Monk, since it's likely that against a Medium-sized opponent, a Medium Monk will be winning most of the checks (+4 for Improved Grapple, +X for high Str). As such, you keep them from moving, and you can deal your unarmed strike damage normally. Takes a foe out of the fight and obliterates them fairly quickly. And for a Goliath Monk... ouch.

As for a Small Monk, that's a toughie. Most Small races have a Str penalty and aren't good at grappling, which is one of the main advantages of the Str Monk. Small characters are almost always better at Dex-based classes. That doesn't mean that they can't be Fighters or Barbarians, but they function better as ranged Fighters or Barbarians.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Strength based monks are better than dex focused ones.
They do more damage and have a higher attack bonus with out having to use weapon finese.

Depending upon your build, what books you have available and your playstyle.

Yes, a Str monk deals out melee damage faster than a Dex monk- I admitted as much in a thread here with comrade raoul- but a Dex monk has other advantages. I have actually played a Dex monk who was almost as effective as the party's Barbarian.

Just using the Core rules:

They have better ACs and other damage-avoidance skills, making them slightly more durable.

They have better initiative bonuses, allowing them more chances to strike first, which can be crucial.

They are more accurate in ranged combat, including the use of battlefield control ranged combat like tanglefoot bags and flaming oil. A Dex monk with a Quiver of Ehlonna can be a devastating ranged combatant, softening up opponents (esp. spellcasters) for the real fighters to drop with their PowAtt/Cleave/Great Cleave.

They have more AoOs.

Unusual races may have other advantages- Githzerai and Thri-Kreen Dex monks can be devastating. Look at the Anthropomorphic Animals from Savage Species, and you'll find races that can be a dual Str/Dex build...and who may have decent Wis scores as well.

Other books, like DCv1 add even more love for the Dex monk:

They can use a Polearm as a monk weapon, really bumping the effectiveness of their FoB & AoOs.

Long story short- if you want to go with a pure melee monk, a Str Monk is probably best- he'll drop melee opponents 1-2 rounds more quickly than a Dex monk. But a Dex monk can be just as effective in combat as his stronger cousin if he's played correctly.

 

[frankthedm]

Str is the way to go. "F" the skill points and go half ogre +6 to hit 1d8+5 should allow for some skull cracking. Though if you squeeze a 16 base STR with your point buy, your 22 STR will give you +7 /1d8+6. or wielding a Q-staff will give you 1d8+9 thanks to STRx1.5.

 

[pawsplay]

My monks are always Wis monks who are Str monks on the weekends. Just make it moreso, I guess. A Str based monk can hit hard and accurate, grapple insanely well, and doesn't spend a lot of time worrying about how situational Stunning Fist is.

Your AC won't be great, but who would want to be near you, anyway?

 

[pawsplay]

I'm glad people actually posted. My last threads died really quick....

Has anyone ever actually built a small STR monk? I think it would be an interesting role-playing option. How can you make that doable... if it is...

Well, you probably won't be doing much grappling, so I would milk that +1 to hit and go the Power Attack, Leap Attack route, and take Weapon Focus, Power Critical, etc on your strike.

 

[szilard]

I'm glad people actually posted. My last threads died really quick....

Has anyone ever actually built a small STR monk? I think it would be an interesting role-playing option. How can you make that doable... if it is...

Well, it would help with AC and attack rolls. A halfling monk with flurrying shuiriken would be fairly cool.

The problems?

* Are there small races that don't have strength penalties? With point-buy, you'd be paying extra for a high strength.

* Grapple would be useless - which is a shame, as strength-based monks can be great grapplers. Is there a small race with powerful build?

* Movement is likely to suffer.

-Stuart

 

[Tonguez]

Str Wis and Con are what you need and if you can try and keep Dex at 13 due to feat prereqs.

Absolutely do NOT go small

I once tried a Dex Monk with average str she couldn't hit a thing!

 

[phindar]

Well, I'll suggest what I always suggest: the Monk/Barbarian.

Go about 9 levels or so in Monk, lose faith with order and succumb to the rage in your half-human heart, go Chaotic and start taking Barbarian levels. I went the Stunning Fist/Spring Attack route, but a grappler would have been pretty nasty too. My only regret was the campaign died out shortly after I hit 10th level, so I only spent 3 or 4 sessions as a M/B. But I was pretty happy with it. (AC was low but it was a low magic campaign-- I had two items!-- and I was never locked into melee that much anyway.)

 

[The Souljourner]

Honestly, every monk I've ever seen that didn't focus on strength was just pathetic (and that's been quite a few). I don't understand why people seem to think it's cool or ok to make a month with 10-12 strength. This isn't 2nd edition where monks got no benefit from strength, if you have no strength, you're doing jack-all for damage. People who want to hit stuff need strength. That's just all there is to it.

So anyway... yes, 14s across the board except int and cha is the way to go. That's the most efficient. And yes, your AC will suck. Honestly, monks don't get crazy AC until high levels anyway, and then only in campaigns with high point totals to start out with. Most full plate wearing fighters will always outstrip the monk.

-Nate

 

[darthkilmor]

Play a yak folk monk, and body meld into the first type: giant you find.