Strength based monks?

[Diirk]

These stats are horrible for a monk. Too low. A good monk needs str 16, con 16 and wis 16. Dex may be 12 or even lower. AC comes from WIS and mage armor or bracers of armor.

With 16s in str, con, wis and 12 in dex, you're up to 34 points already; not exactly doable in a 28 point buy game (which is what alot of people play in), or even a 32 point buy. And given that you don't exactly get to cherry pick stats if you roll them randomly, I'd suggest its the extreme minority of games where such stats are viable.

Unless you meant before stat increasing items, of course. But then the stats you quoted as horrible are only 3 +2 items away from being what you want.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'm playing a small, sort of strength based character in Living Greyhawk right now. She has monk levels, so I'll mention her; you can decide if she's actually a proper monk:

Tallfellow halfling:
Monk 2/Fighter 2/Cleric 2 (of Arvoreen--nobility and war domains)/Paladin 3/Pious Templar 2 (at the moment--Pious Templar is going to be the rest of her levels).

Starting stats:
Str 13, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 14

Current stats: Str 18 (+4 belt), Dex 16, Con 12 (+2 amulet), Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 16 (+2 cloak)

Feats: Dodge, Mobility (b), Power Attack (b), Weapon Focus: Longsword (b), Improved Grapple (b), Combat Reflexes (b), Divine Might, True Believer, Close Quarters Fighting

Next feats: Elusive Target, weapon specialization: Longsword (pious templar), melee weapon mastery (b)

All told, she has been surprisingly effective. She can grapple pretty much anything medium or smaller reasonably effectively (well enough to shut down small opponents and disable spellcasters or single opponents as well as to force most medium fighter types to spend their time escaping grapples instead of attacking--and, in a pinch, she can be buffed with enlarge person, etc to take down larger opponents (my APL 4 or 6 party defeated a shadow template dire bat in that manner)). She also dishes out a pretty good amount of damage provided that she has a decent weapon for her level. (Her current weapon is a +1 holy green starmetal longsword).

Because she wears armor (mithral breastplate) and uses a heavy shield and longsword as her primary armarment, she doesn't fit the typical monk concept, but she does grapple fairly regularly and uses unarmed strikes whenever it's not convenient to have her sword in hand or whenever she wants to take an opponent alive. Because she gets a fair amount of her damage from things like divine might and smite evil, you might also not consider her a purely strength based character, but she's as close to a small strength based monk as I've played or seen played.

I'm glad people actually posted. My last threads died really quick....

Has anyone ever actually built a small STR monk? I think it would be an interesting role-playing option. How can you make that doable... if it is...

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

It's not a strength build, but a small monk could make a pretty phenomenal scout-type. You've got all the stealth skills and the speed to get away from just about anybody. Your complete lack of armor means you never have to worry about armor check penalties to your dexterous skills, so you can traverse that narrow ledge or rushing river like it's a paved walkway.

And if you accidentally spring that poison trap or step in a puddle of diseased water, you may not even notice. You can emergency heal yourself a little bit if necessary and slow fall (+ probably some darn good tumbling ability) in event the floor drops out from under you. Massive speed increases mean you may be able to jump ridiculous distances, too (eventually +24 from speed increases alone).

Heck, maybe even start out with a couple of levels in Rogue to be able to treat disable device/open lock as class skills (for purposes of maximum ranks). Go human with a little int and it shouldn't be a problem to completely replace the Rogue in your party.

I just recently played a game (White Plume Mountain adventure) with a normal monk build (medium size, str-based, not even remotely optimized [I love me my deflect arrows!]), but I still ended up doing pretty much all the scouting because of my amazing balance/tumble abilities. The only downside was sometimes I came back to the party and said "no problem, it's easy!" only to discover that when you aren't getting a +17 to your balance checks, it's not so easy! The heavy armor wearing cleric almost drowned so many times, I think he developed hydrophobia.

I want to try this build now

 

[mvincent]

Honestly, every monk I've ever seen that didn't focus on strength was just pathetic (and that's been quite a few).

I've done some heavy comparisons (and played both): a dex-based build can be much better than a str-based one, but it often requires an experienced optimizer. With things like permanent magic fang +5, monks belt, improved natural attack, etc., a monk can do more damage than he probably needs to. Meanwhile, the high-dex provides synergy with many other monk abilities (and still improves the monk's to-hit roll thanks to finesse). Allowing TWF'ing with the flurry makes the dex-based monk even more preferable.

 

[Hella_Tellah]

Ways to bump the potency of your monk:

1) Find a way to get access to either arcane Enlarge or psionic Expansion- both increase your size for a damage bump...Expansion does it twice as well.

2) If your campaign doesn't HR away the multiclassing restrictions on Monks (which, as I recall, don't exist in Oriental Adventures...) start off with a Ftr level or two. Those bonus feats will really boost your combat effectiveness.

3) As 2 above, levels in Paladin or similar classes can also dovetail nicely with the Monk's abilities. Paladin class features are notoriously compatible with those of the Monk, and others, like the PsyWar, also work well with them.

4) If your DM allows them, feats such as INA and VoP can boost your PC's power.

5) A nifty Feat from DCv1 is Ring the Golden Bell. It gives the Monk very cinematic/legendary ability to use your unarmed attacks at range, including any effect that the Monk could deliver with a touch or unarmed attack. It is VERY sweet.

Improved Natural Attack, yes. Vow of Poverty, no. No, no, no. Monks need magical equipment to fly, bypass damage reduction, and achieve the sundry other little tricks that make it possible to succeed in combat. If you're spending all of your WBL on stat-bonus and defensive items, then VoP might be equivalent, but any melee combatant worth his weight in dog leather will have Winged Boots at the minimum.

 

[mvincent]

Monks need magical equipment to fly

I typically have a cleric cast air-walk on monks during adventures. Of course: the jump skill for monks tends to be extremely high anyway.

 

[Victim]

Improved Natural Attack, yes. Vow of Poverty, no. No, no, no. Monks need magical equipment to fly, bypass damage reduction, and achieve the sundry other little tricks that make it possible to succeed in combat. If you're spending all of your WBL on stat-bonus and defensive items, then VoP might be equivalent, but any melee combatant worth his weight in dog leather will have Winged Boots at the minimum.

Not if someone is casting Fly (or Mass Fly).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Darklone
These stats are horrible for a monk. Too low. A good monk needs str 16, con 16 and wis 16. Dex may be 12 or even lower. AC comes from WIS and mage armor or bracers of armor.

Diirk
With 16s in str, con, wis and 12 in dex, you're up to 34 points already; not exactly doable in a 28 point buy game (which is what alot of people play in), or even a 32 point buy. And given that you don't exactly get to cherry pick stats if you roll them randomly, I'd suggest its the extreme minority of games where such stats are viable.

Low point-buy campaigns are one area in which a Dex monk built for ranged combat/AoOs really works out better than the Str Monk- you minimize the problem of MAD because your Dex does double duty- improving your defense & offense simultaneously.

Put your points into Dex & Wis and concentrate on ranged weapons rather than melee ones. With maxed Dex and Wis, you'll max out your AC, you'll get the initiative and AoO bonuses, and your Dex will boost your combat effectiveness by giving you good bonuses to your ranged attacks- Xbows, javelins, slings, shuriken, tanglefoot bags or flaming oil.

Then you pick whatever 3rd stat you choose to emphasize and go from there.

 

[Quartz]

If you're going to go STR based for a monk, take Power Attack. Use one end of a quarterstaff as a two hand weapon for that sweet 2:1 ratio as part of your flurry.

IMMHO Flurry=TWF, so why bother with the quarterstaff? Power Attack can apply to your fists.

 

[Erywin]

But you don't get the 2 dmg for one point of BAB that the two handed quarterstaff allows for.