striker leader hybrid?

[Evilhalfling]

I built a halfling bard/sorcerer for LFR
at will that deals 1d8+8, with +3 to another target.
aspect of valor for her hybrid feat -
a bard daily that grants healing each time an ally hits the targe (as an effect)
Is it enough to make up for the loss of 1 heal per encounter?

I chickened out when faced with the chance to play the groups only leader.
Now im stuck with my other PC, so I can qualify for a 4-7 level game I signed up for in a few weeks.
- It would be fine in an ordinary campaign, but my LFR group always takes the hard option.

 

[kerbarian]

It's not exactly a leader/striker, but one combo I had considered that seems quite strong is cleric/invoker with Hand of Radiance and Astral Seal. You can go for 20 Wis, and they have compatible armor, so you can spend hybrid talent on something like Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy for more healing, in case you're the only leader in the party.

Hand of Radiance doesn't let you focus damage on one target like a striker, but its total damage output is very high. At 1st level, it's (d4 + 5) * 3 = 22.5 damage, and it scales at 3x the rate of your static damage modifiers.

What I was looking for when I was thinking about this class is a leader that can do more than minor damage and minor status effects. Adding some striker would have been great, but cleric/invoker seemed like the best fit. You get strong healing (+5 Healer's Lore, Astral Seal, optional Healer's Mercy) and don't lose anything significant from invoker.

Cleric with another Wis-based class (avenger, seeker, druid, shaman) could have some of the same advantages, but the only striker in the bunch doesn't have armor or implement compatibility.

 

[DracoSuave]

OH OH MY TURN MY TURN

BARBARIAN/RUNEPRIEST

Seriously tho, that could work...

Str/Con Barbarian and Str/Con Runepriest....

Barbarians deal their damage primarily through a mighty weapon combined with a mighty attack power, and their rages, and rampage. None of these things are restricted to barbarian powers like other strikers.

Runepriests get a Runic Artistry, in this case, Wrathful Hammer. That means whenever an enemy deals damage to you, you're adding your Constitution to damage on all attacks until the next turn.

To make this work well, take Devastating Strike (you want them to try to hit you for maximum damage), and Word of Diminishment. Generally, you will use the Rune of Destruction version of the power. (Yes, even tho you don't have Rune Master, you can still enter the rune state to get the Rune of _____ part of the power, that's the Runic Keyword that does -that- part. You don't get the ally buff; but that's OKAY!)

Then, you can take Feral Might as your Hybrid Talent.

You'll want to go Goliath for this, to get the most out of your damage, and as well, you'll want to take Goliath Greatweapon Prowess, until you have the feat room to take Weapon Proficiency: Big Arse Weapon of Choice and Weapon Focus: Big Arse Weapon of Choice.

My suggestion is either Executioner's Axe or Mordenkrad, depending on whether you want to go massive into crit, or Hammer Rhythm. But really, that's up to you.

You'll also want to get Chainmail. The parts of the Barbarian you're taking don't care about your armor, and because Feral Might (Rageblood Vigor, obv) is better for you than the Barbarian Armor option, the heavy armor isn't a problem for you. As well, see below for Paragon options.

For your paragon path, consider Master of the Forge. You hit harder, make your foes hit harder, and it really works well with Barbarian stuff. You get to smash face (which is what you want) and your friends also smash face (which is what they want). Win/win.

The thing to remember is without Rage Strike, you're not as focused on raging, so you don't necessarily want a PP that goes 'Raging GOOD!' What you want is something that ends fights quicker.

SUMMARY:

Runepriest and Barbarian synergize really well;

--Strength primary, Constitution secondary for both makes statting a breeze and qualifies you for good armor quickly.
--The powers synergize well, and certain benefits of your leader class actually combo well with your Barbarian class.
--You'll want to get hit, and the extra temp hp from Rageblood Vigor will make it a solid win for you increasing your damage outlay.
--Barbarian is about smashing face. Runepriest is about everyone smashing face.
--The flavor writes itself--go listen to the Immigrant Song by Led Zepplin, watch 13th warrior, and then imagine -that- with glowing runes of power.

 

[jbear]

Ok, here's my go:

Elf Hybrid Shaman/Ranger (Watcher Spirit)
STR 10 CON 13 DEX 18 INT 10 WIS 18 CAR 8
Defenses: AC 16 FORT 13 REF 14 WILL 14 (Not greatest but you keep away from the fight whenever possible)
Background: Impultur (WIS for HP): HP 30
Skills: Nature, Perception, Insight, Stealth

At Will
Twin Strike
Claws of the Eagle (you can still function perfectly when blind or surrounded by giving your action to the hulking barbarian...)

Encounter
lvl1 Stormhawks Fury (move your spirit and set up allies attacks on a big nasty with +4 damage9
lvl 3 Thundertusk Boar Strike (Twin Strike on Juice with massive Push)

Daily
lvl 1 Spirit of the Healing Flood (Whole party gets Regeneration 2 when bloodied and they can end it for 10 hp of free healing as a minor action... oh and a burst 5 attack that only affects enemies!)
Lvl 5 Spitting Cobra Stance (yeah baby!)

Utility
Lvl 2 Invigorating Stride (not bad for an Elf as you can shift through difficult terrain... and Second Wind as a move action! Almost as good as a Dwarf!)
Lvl 6 Sudden Restoration (grant 2 allies a SThrow as a minor action, and its Encounter Power!)

Feats
lvl1 Hybrid Talent: Spirit Power: Spirits Prey (you give ranged basic attacks as OA WITH CAdv!!! Nice, your team is going to looove you!)
(this could be a problem if you are playing official LFR, as there is no option for Watcher Spirit in the Hybrid Build in the PHB3. This may change over time, as I don't really see why the builds from primal power shouldn't be considered. The Martial Power builds are certainly options for the Hybrid. Totally unfair! Where is the Shaman love? Anyway, assuming this is just an oversight I will continue...)
Lvl 2 Weapon Proficiency: Great Bow
Lvl 4 Sudden Call (call spirit as a free action)
Lvl 6 Distant Advantage
(then weapon Focus, lethal hunter and Expertise, depending on your level of power gaming you may want to change the order in which you choose the feats sudden call can wait for example, and distant advantage relies upon having tactically competent allies etc. )


My wife plays a similar build and she always has something cool to do, even blind and surrounded by enemies. It's like having a Twin Strike Bow Ranger that can actually be useful, interesting and creative as well! Damge from a distance, leadership, backup healing and even a touch of control if you use your spirit companion cleverly).

 

[jbear]

Edit: Okay, no worries, found what I was looking for. Sorry. Move along.

 

[jbear]

A Human could make a good Barbarian/Runepriest too.
With the Extra Feat you can have your Hybrid Talent option and weapon proficiency at lvl 1. And an extra at will for the Hybrid is the bees knees.

Your CON is going to be 16, and that is a bummer but the payoff is interesting as you gain versatility and access to your needed feats faster.

As for Devastating Strike... don't really rate it. Howling Strike is better. Charge becomes your bread and butter, which apart from the extra damage and the magic item support (which is brutal) is more accurate.

You don't mind getting hit, but you don't want to get rained on all the time, surely. Rageblood vigor only gives you temporary hp when you kill something, so not that often. With the third at-will you could take Recuperating Strike if you wanted Temp HP at will, but I'd probably choose Word of Shielding for some more Leader Options or Howl of Fury for a touch of Minion control at-will.

I'd go with Runepriest Armour Proficiency as my hybrid talent option, personally. I don't like being hit, temp. hps or not. And I'd get Fullblade Prof. for the extra accuracy, which makes up for 18 STR and surpasses it when you charge with Howling Strike. Your going to want a Vanguard Weapon, Badge of the Beserker and a Horned Helm.

Heck, if you really didn't want to be hit, you could use a Bastard sword and light shield or train in an Urgosh to get your AC up to 18 at level 1. Then put 16 in WIS and 13 in CON and take the Defiant Word option instead. Extra damage when you are missed. Plus you could have Impultur as your Background (which uses WIS to calculate your HP, or even Auspicious Birth, and calculate HP using STR) to avoid the lowering of your HP, and you'd gain a very nice bonus to your Perception, Insight and Nature skills.

 

[invokethehojo]

I didn't read the whole thread so someone might have mentioned this already but i made a dragonborn strength cleric/ dragon sorc and it worked pretty well, other than having a low reflex. The same build with a human was a little better option wise but I had to take both 17's, although with all the different expertise feats (which we don't use) you could probably make up for that with the extra feat.

 

[DracoSuave]

A Human could make a good Barbarian/Runepriest too.
With the Extra Feat you can have your Hybrid Talent option and weapon proficiency at lvl 1. And an extra at will for the Hybrid is the bees knees.

Your CON is going to be 16, and that is a bummer but the payoff is interesting as you gain versatility and access to your needed feats faster.

As for Devastating Strike... don't really rate it. Howling Strike is better. Charge becomes your bread and butter, which apart from the extra damage and the magic item support (which is brutal) is more accurate.

But you don't open with howling strike.

In your model, you're opening with howling strike, and then... what... more howling strike? You're not fulfilling the role as a leader.

In my model, you're opening with Word of Diminishment. This assigns them vulnerability 2 (at heroic) which then gives them Vulnerability 2. Then you make that beefy 1[W]+1d8+2+Str... and if you get hit +Con...

You don't mind getting hit, but you don't want to get rained on all the time, surely. Rageblood vigor only gives you temporary hp when you kill something, so not that often. With the third at-will you could take Recuperating Strike if you wanted Temp HP at will, but I'd probably choose Word of Shielding for some more Leader Options or Howl of Fury for a touch of Minion control at-will.

I like Howl of Fury. I'd use it to kill a minion to get those temp hp. Save those minions for when they can save you!

I'd go with Runepriest Armour Proficiency as my hybrid talent option, personally. I don't like being hit, temp. hps or not. And I'd get Fullblade Prof. for the extra accuracy, which makes up for 18 STR and surpasses it when you charge with Howling Strike. Your going to want a Vanguard Weapon, Badge of the Beserker and a Horned Helm.

But if you're charging a lot, you -want- rageblood vigor! They go hand in hand. You're wielding a two-handed weapon, so the extra shield is not a bonus. You -have- the prerequisites for chainmail, so you gain NOTHING by pissing away your hybrid option on this.

Heck, if you really didn't want to be hit, you could use a Bastard sword and light shield or train in an Urgosh to get your AC up to 18 at level 1. Then put 16 in WIS and 13 in CON and take the Defiant Word option instead. Extra damage when you are missed. Plus you could have Impultur as your Background (which uses WIS to calculate your HP, or even Auspicious Birth, and calculate HP using STR) to avoid the lowering of your HP, and you'd gain a very nice bonus to your Perception, Insight and Nature skills.

Bastard Sword + Shield = You never get to use a Barbarian Power. All of the ones worth taking have the disadvantage 'Must use a two handed weapon.'

That said, Urgosh does allow you to raise your AC. But this is not a defensive build. If you want Moar Defenses, get Scale Armor. Wisdom doesn't help a barbarian.

I get your build, but this is its problem in a nutshell:

1) You're NOT afraid to get hit. Barbarian/Runepriests can -handle- getting hit inherently. If incoming damage is a problem, Word of Diminishment ALSO has your back. Remember: With -every- Runepriest power, you get -two- powers, not just one.
2) You're concentrating on charges but then you're castrating yourself by being defensive and NOT taking Feral Might. I like the idea in general, but gonna do it, DO it.
3) You're suggesting a shield for a Barbarian. The power of Barbarians are in having both hands full of death. What you're suggesting sounds more like a viable build for a Fighter/Cleric. Which, by the way, is a good build.


All that said, I -do- like the idea of going Human at first level. Word of Shielding is -very- good too.

 

[jbear]

True. Totally forgot about the two handed weapon requirement. Duh!

Don't get me wrong. I like your build. And taking into consideration what you point out, I'd probably go with an Urgosh and the WIS version. Again, maybe just a personal thing, I prefer to not get hit. True Barbarians don't benefit from WIS, but perception, nature and insight do. Three big skills you have access to right there.

True, you're partly a leader. But partly a striker. At the beginning of a lot of fights you can't reach the enemies unless you charge. Relase the Howl! Then once you've charged the big boss, why not set up the crew with some vulnerability? Plus some times you can't charge ... say against a solo creature or surrounded by a horde of flesh eating nasties. The difference between a d8 and a d6 extra damage is pretty minimal compared to the ability to use the power on a charge. Besides, do you really need to give the monsters an extra incentive to hit you if you are only wearing chainmail?

With one feat you get scale armour, leaving a slot for something else (supposing you intend to eventually graduate from chain to scale). No armour penalty to your skills is nice. Chainmail is great if you want to get hit. Personally I dislike chain, but that's just me. Slow and -1 penalty, yeck! If you don't care if you are going to get hit why not just take Hide Armour Expertise in that case and remain more mobile. heck why not just wear straight hide or even leather or cloth. You could wear a loin cloth and paint a bulls eye on your chest too (joking ) 'Pissing away your hybrid talent', those words might be a bit strong ... 4 temp hp when you kill something becomes relative depending on how your DM builds encounters. In my game you'd be laughing. I love minions, so you'd have a near constant buffer and it woud be worth bumping that up to 9 temp hp with a feat. But with all the other feats on your list your likely going to have to wait for that quite a while. Lvl 6 after getting your talent, your armour and your weapon (unless your human ofc).

Actually a Fighter/Runepriest could be pretty decent with a similar mechanic as what you suggest for the Barbarian using Battlerager vigor. And as there is perfect symetry with armour proficiency you have either chain or plate armour without having to waste a feat. Obviously they don't hit as hard, but damn are you sticky thanks to your combat challenge power. Having said all that this is probably a better option for what I am looking at than the Barbarian, hands down. I'd stll be tempted to pump WIS and hit harder on a miss. Which means I'd lose the benefit inherent to Battlerager Vigor so Combat Superiority would be the way to go. Hit me if you can... but if you miss, you will be punished!! And I would have saved myself an oh so valuable feat slot and gotten a decent power from my Hybrid Talent! Say no more. I've sold myself. Rolling one now!

 

[DracoSuave]

Actually a Fighter/Runepriest could be pretty decent

Absolutely, and I thought of that afterwards. I dunno if I like Battlerager Vigor with Wisdom tho... but that's just me. If I was going for Str/Wis, I'd go Longtooth Shifter for the survivability... probably two-handed weapon talent because +1 to hit is always good... work my way into Pit-Fighter.