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D&D 5E Strixhaven: Curriculum of Chaos No Subclasses Confirmed by James Crawford


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I do not see a lot of safe options left for classes or subclasses other than more cleric domains
Really? I’m fairly sure I could come up with 20 subclass ideas off the top of my head without even thinking too hard. There’s still enormous scope left in the subclass design space I think. I hope wizards DO get more creative and risky in future, but I really don’t see ‘running out of concepts for subclasses’ as a bottleneck any time soon.
 
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Really? I’m fairly sure I could come up with 20 subclass ideas off the top of my head without even thinking too hard. There’s still enormous scope left in the subclass design space I think. I hope wizards DO get more creative and risky in future, but I really don’t see ‘running out of concord for subclasses’ as a bottleneck any time soon.
okay list them as I am not seeing a lot of safe options, I see plenty of experimental stuff available but they are not going that way hence my inability to come up with results.
 

okay list them as I am not seeing a lot of safe options, I see plenty of experimental stuff available but they are not going that way hence my inability to come up with results.
  • a music-focused bard, college of troubadours?
  • an ancient dragon warlock patron
  • a fiend-blooded sorceror
  • an str/con based iron skin monk, focused on resisting/absorbing damage
  • a necromancy-based sorcerer
  • a circle of the plough Druid, who reveres farmlands amd fertility
  • a str-based brutal thug rogue
  • cleric domains of stone, secrets, beauty, cold, and harvest/agriculture
  • a golemcrafter wizard
  • a feral monk for creatures with natural weapons, that aims to bring oneself closer to the beast within
  • a fighter focused on forging magic weapons to use
  • a fast moving dervish barbarian who uses light or dual weapons
  • a plant-based Druid, who can wild shape into plant monsters, photosynthesise, etc
  • a paladin sworn to serve a nation or king

And I’m not even getting into setting-specific stuff or psionic or even getting particularly creative. I mean, the Rune Knight and the Circle of Stars Druid from Tasha’s seem to have been very well received, but I didn’t really see anyone clamouring for those niches to be filled beforehand.
 
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  • a music-focused bard, college of troubadours?
  • an ancient dragon warlock patron
  • a fiend-blooded sorceror
  • an str/con based iron skin monk, focused on resisting/absorbing damage
  • a necromancy-based sorcerer
  • a circle of the plough Druid, who reveres farmlands amd fertility
  • a str-based brutal thug rogue
  • cleric domains of stone, secrets, beauty, cold, and harvest/agriculture
  • a golemcrafter wizard
  • a feral monk for creatures with natural weapons, that aims to bring oneself closer to the beast within
  • a fighter focused on forging magic weapons to use
  • a fast moving dervish barbarian who uses light or dual weapons
  • a plant-based Druid, who can wild shape into plant monsters, photosynthesise, etc
  • a paladin sworn to serve a nation or king

And I’m not even getting into setting-specific stuff or psionic or even getting particularly creative. I mean, the Rune Knight and the Circle of Stars Druid from Tasha’s seem to have been very well received, but I didn’t really see anyone clamouring for those niches to be filled beforehand.
okay in order
1 how do they differ both mechanically and thematically from other bards?
2 this one is a no brainer and should be there already.
3 how do you make it not teifling default or hell warlock is the real question.
4 a that would make the monk even more MAD as abyss also why are all monk subclasses pure fighting styles it is kinda dull but could work would need some offence abilities to not be dull playing them.
5 how would they not just overlap with the necromancer or the two undead warlocks?
6 okay the thematic could work but what does it bring to the druid not presently there?
7 would be MAD as anything also other than stat change what does it bring?
8 that would need lots of spells being made first.
9 how would that even play?
10 overlaps a lot with the new barbarian subclass also how do we deal with it being unusable by phb races?
11 we have too many magic fighter subclasses as there are at this point we need the arcane gish just so people stop cluttering up the fighter.
12 okay but mechanically what does it add also we lack sufficient plant monster for that to work right now.
13 we already have it was in swords coast adventure guide.

define setting specific that is not just a slight variation of a present subclass?
psionics needs a full class first before we really make subclasses as at present they will just end up with more quarter casters.

consider both mechanical and thematic.
 

The thing that worries me about this exclusion is that it drastically curtails the amount of crunch in the book. Many people look at new content in terms of what they can adapt to their own games, and subclasses are a big part of that. What will this book actually have? One new race and a handful of feats?
 

Rabulias

Hero
The thing that worries me about this exclusion is that it drastically curtails the amount of crunch in the book. Many people look at new content in terms of what they can adapt to their own games, and subclasses are a big part of that. What will this book actually have? One new race and a handful of feats?
Spells and magic items might be useful in other games. There may also be some general rules (e.g., spell research, magic item creation, learning magical abilities, etc.) that could apply more broadly. I will definitely be looking at what can be used elsewhere before deciding to buy.
 

Dausuul

Legend
But this uses D&D rules, and with D&D rules there are other ways to travel between planes, such as the Dream of the Blue Veil spell.
The question was, if Strixhaven has non-Arcavian students, why is every non-Arcavian student we know of a planeswalker? Answer: Because so far, all of our information on the student body comes from the Strixhaven Magic set, which follows M:tG lore, which means they have to be planeswalkers.

It's equivalent to saying "Anyone in Arcavia who isn't from Arcavia must have had a way to get to Arcavia from somewhere else." Trivially true, but hardly informative. Furthermore, Magic sets keep a lid on the number of planeswalkers for gameplay reasons, and Strixhaven was not designed as a "planeswalker set" (after War of the Spark, it will probably be quite a while before they do another of those), so the ratio of planeswalker to non-planeswalker cards doesn't necessarily represent anything in the lore.
 

The thing that worries me about this exclusion is that it drastically curtails the amount of crunch in the book. Many people look at new content in terms of what they can adapt to their own games, and subclasses are a big part of that. What will this book actually have? One new race and a handful of feats?
Yep. This certainly has dropped my interest to the book from 'potentially interesting' to 'pass.'
 

The thing that worries me about this exclusion is that it drastically curtails the amount of crunch in the book. Many people look at new content in terms of what they can adapt to their own games, and subclasses are a big part of that. What will this book actually have? One new race and a handful of feats?
An expansion on D&D's social mechanics:
 

An expansion on D&D's social mechanics:
See, to me that reads like the patron rules: more of a mechanical ribbon than a reason to buy the book and add it to your game.
 

Undrave

Hero
I do not see a lot of safe options left for classes or subclasses other than more cleric domains they are going to have to try something just to get people to buy stuff.

I still wonder if we will get a psion this edition?
They could always publish more spells, those always seem to be easy to make :rolleyes:

When they tried to make the Mystic they ended up crying to cram all 4e roles into a single class. If they just focused on a few aspect they could make it to work... like, we don't need a Psion to get the melee psionic stuff, we got two Psionic subclasses for that.

  • a music-focused bard, college of troubadours?
  • an ancient dragon warlock patron
  • a fiend-blooded sorceror
  • an str/con based iron skin monk, focused on resisting/absorbing damage
  • a necromancy-based sorcerer
  • a circle of the plough Druid, who reveres farmlands amd fertility
  • a str-based brutal thug rogue
  • cleric domains of stone, secrets, beauty, cold, and harvest/agriculture
  • a golemcrafter wizard
  • a feral monk for creatures with natural weapons, that aims to bring oneself closer to the beast within
  • a fighter focused on forging magic weapons to use
  • a fast moving dervish barbarian who uses light or dual weapons
  • a plant-based Druid, who can wild shape into plant monsters, photosynthesise, etc
  • a paladin sworn to serve a nation or king

And I’m not even getting into setting-specific stuff or psionic or even getting particularly creative. I mean, the Rune Knight and the Circle of Stars Druid from Tasha’s seem to have been very well received, but I didn’t really see anyone clamouring for those niches to be filled beforehand.

I could see a Plant Druid (folded into the Farmer Druid I think, Circle of Harvests?) and a Whirlwind Barbarians being good future subclasses, same for the Dragon Warlock. Cleric domains are also an easy possibility. A Brutal Thug Rogue who gets bonuses from STR and can use clubs to sneak attack would be neat. Or maybe as a Fighter subclass with a Rogue MC feel to it?

Personally, I'd like to see:

1- Warden Barbarian that transforms into embodiments of natural phenomena when raging
2- Gourmet Bard
3- Chaos Sorcerer as a retry on the Wild Magic Sorcerer
4- Retry of the Giant Blood Sorcerer
5- Some sort of Loreseeker/Tomb Raider Wizard, a guy who specializes in exploring old ruins to find magical secrets
6- College of Masks Bard, actors who can 'become' somebody else (basically modular skills/level of combat ability)
7- Some sort of Steel Monk who, while retaining DEX as a main stat, can make use of armour as an offensive tool
8- Some kind of class that use the Chinese 5 elements would be cool. Maybe a Wu Xing Monk to replace the 4 element one and an Onmyodo Druid?
9- Or a Monk of the Four Symbols, or even use that for a Paladin or Fighter if we don't want to slap all the Asian concepts into the Monk.
10- Some way to bring back the 4e Avenger.
 

An expansion on D&D's social mechanics:
There is quite a lot there actually, worth quoting a few key points:

Depending on how well you do on your exams, which mostly consist of skill checks and a lot of flavor, you’ll get bonuses going forward in the story

The book also contains rules for building up relationships with other students, which affects the narrative, but also has mechanical impacts on the game.

Strixhaven is designed to be dropped into any D&D campaign.

The book features an adventure that can be played from levels 1-10 or broken up into four standalone games, each representing a year spent at the college.

A bestiary contains 40 new creatures
 

They could always publish more spells, those always seem to be easy to make :rolleyes:

When they tried to make the Mystic they ended up crying to cram all 4e roles into a single class. If they just focused on a few aspect they could make it to work... like, we don't need a Psion to get the melee psionic stuff, we got two Psionic subclasses for that.



I could see a Plant Druid (folded into the Farmer Druid I think, Circle of Harvests?) and a Whirlwind Barbarians being good future subclasses, same for the Dragon Warlock. Cleric domains are also an easy possibility. A Brutal Thug Rogue who gets bonuses from STR and can use clubs to sneak attack would be neat. Or maybe as a Fighter subclass with a Rogue MC feel to it?

Personally, I'd like to see:

1- Warden Barbarian that transforms into embodiments of natural phenomena when raging
2- Gourmet Bard
3- Chaos Sorcerer as a retry on the Wild Magic Sorcerer
4- Retry of the Giant Blood Sorcerer
5- Some sort of Loreseeker/Tomb Raider Wizard, a guy who specializes in exploring old ruins to find magical secrets
6- College of Masks Bard, actors who can 'become' somebody else (basically modular skills/level of combat ability)
7- Some sort of Steel Monk who, while retaining DEX as a main stat, can make use of armour as an offensive tool
8- Some kind of class that use the Chinese 5 elements would be cool. Maybe a Wu Xing Monk to replace the 4 element one and an Onmyodo Druid?
9- Or a Monk of the Four Symbols, or even use that for a Paladin or Fighter if we don't want to slap all the Asian concepts into the Monk.
10- Some way to bring back the 4e Avenger.
mystic need a basic mechanical adventure party focus honestly I say make it cut closer to cleric, druid or even bard as we always need some decent devotionless support and bard is too musical for my taste.
we will get more spells out of envenitability so those are certain.
1 could work what about a cu chulainn monstrosity with other options available?
2 how would that work differently than is presently done?
3 I hate retreading ground but a better one would be nice.
4 giving giants lore some love and building up the least relevant caster is a fair idea.
5 what would mechanically be?
6 I could see it would need better social rules.
7 how would that work?
8 do not make everything asian a monk the class base is not built for it but I do want it.
9 I could see it.
is that not a divine half caster but more rogue correct?
 

Undrave

Hero
1 could work what about a cu chulainn monstrosity with other options available?
I was thinking you'd have a list of choice to pick from (picking more as you level up) and when you Rage you pick what form to go into. They would provide some passive benefits and a special attack you could do. Lots of Warden power to take inspiration from "Form of Winter's Herald", "Form of The Harvest King", "Form of the Crashing Wave" that sort of stuff.
2 how would that work differently than is presently done?
Admittedly the Chef feat kinda took the wind out of that particular sail. A chef is actually a good position for a spy. You can tell a lot about a country's state of affair by what food is available, and you get access to a lot of powerful people by working the right banquets. There's also the angle of a character who hunts rare food in dangerous places. I'm sure there's tons of delicacy in the world of D&D that can only be found by risking one's life (thought that part might be more of a Ranger archetype). The 'food' angle sounds silly at first but has potential.
3 I hate retreading ground but a better one would be nice.
I just want one where the chance of mishap isn't at the whim of the DM! I want a 'push your luck' Sorcerer who can risk it big for strong effects.
5 what would mechanically be?
Basically the Wizard counterpart to the Arcane Trickster, a Wizard with a dash of Rogue instead of a Rogue with a dash of Wizard. Probably some extra physical toughness to handle ruin delving. Maybe they're good at handling magic wands? An Indiana Jones wizard, basically. Replace the whip with Mage Hand and the gun with a Wand.
7 how would that work?
I really don't know. Mostly medium armour and steel gauntlet and they use their Ki to make themselves ultra durable and able to just have attack bounce off of them?
8 do not make everything asian a monk the class base is not built for it but I do want it.
Yeah I think the Onmyodo Druid is the better pick here. It could be good at divination. Maybe have a system where when you use a spell slot you enter the next 'phase' and each phase has different benefits. Like, if you go into the Fire phase you now know the Firebolt cantrip, that sort of thing?
is that not a divine half caster but more rogue correct?
It was a bit more like a Vengeance Paladin but with no armor. It was a Striker that punished you for trying to run away from them and had various skirmishing tricks and carried a big stick (their armor of faith didn't work with shield so they were incentives to go for the biggest weapon die possible). Basically, somewhere at on a Paladin/Rogue/Kensei venn diagram. Could work well as a Monk subclass I think.
 

I was thinking you'd have a list of choice to pick from (picking more as you level up) and when you Rage you pick what form to go into. They would provide some passive benefits and a special attack you could do. Lots of Warden power to take inspiration from "Form of Winter's Herald", "Form of The Harvest King", "Form of the Crashing Wave" that sort of stuff.

Admittedly the Chef feat kinda took the wind out of that particular sail. A chef is actually a good position for a spy. You can tell a lot about a country's state of affair by what food is available, and you get access to a lot of powerful people by working the right banquets. There's also the angle of a character who hunts rare food in dangerous places. I'm sure there's tons of delicacy in the world of D&D that can only be found by risking one's life (thought that part might be more of a Ranger archetype). The 'food' angle sounds silly at first but has potential.

I just want one where the chance of mishap isn't at the whim of the DM! I want a 'push your luck' Sorcerer who can risk it big for strong effects.

Basically the Wizard counterpart to the Arcane Trickster, a Wizard with a dash of Rogue instead of a Rogue with a dash of Wizard. Probably some extra physical toughness to handle ruin delving. Maybe they're good at handling magic wands? An Indiana Jones wizard, basically. Replace the whip with Mage Hand and the gun with a Wand.

I really don't know. Mostly medium armour and steel gauntlet and they use their Ki to make themselves ultra durable and able to just have attack bounce off of them?

Yeah I think the Onmyodo Druid is the better pick here. It could be good at divination. Maybe have a system where when you use a spell slot you enter the next 'phase' and each phase has different benefits. Like, if you go into the Fire phase you now know the Firebolt cantrip, that sort of thing?

It was a bit more like a Vengeance Paladin but with no armor. It was a Striker that punished you for trying to run away from them and had various skirmishing tricks and carried a big stick (their armor of faith didn't work with shield so they were incentives to go for the biggest weapon die possible). Basically, somewhere at on a Paladin/Rogue/Kensei venn diagram. Could work well as a Monk subclass I think.
okay
1 yeah that could work.
2 interesting but I have no idea if that would work.
3 understandable.
4 do able
5 seems weak as an idea right now.
6 yeah that one would be the easiest to get working but the other is an idea to store for later.
7 why not a ranger?
 


Yeah... Maybe they can deflect attacks onto other creatures? Maybe Reflect magical blasts like Fox McCloud in Smash? :p

That could work too, mechanically, but the Ranger has too much nature flavor that doesn't work. An Avenger is more of an assassin with Divine powers tacked on.
you hunt the enemies of the faith not as odd as it sounds plus the paladin absorbed the warden and we have yet to have the magic assassin to compliment the magic templar.
 

i think that one interesting aspect of the mechanical caution currently shown by WoTC means that if ever they throw that caution to the winds is probably the best leading indicator of a new edition.
 

ECMO3

Explorer
First. But this Advancement Table can be used for new classes, and be balanced with current classes, and can easily translate current classes. Most people want to specialize at level 1 and gain a feat at level 2. This Table can provide that. Normally the 0-level feat is for a race feat, but can be reused for a setting feat or so on, instead. Similarly, several races want to add more powerful features at a higher features, about level 4. This Table makes it straightforward, and maintains balance among races, by having every race add a more powerful feature at level 4.

Second. Taking the 0-levels is still useful since proficiency depends on the overall character level, when adding the multiclassing classes together. The four levels of intro discourage abusive "dipping". Still, there will be features available during 0-levels, for example, where a level 1 Wizard can cast 2 spells, a level 0 Wizard can cast 1 spell.
I don't think it can translate current classes. IF you tried this the books we already have would just be wrong and obsolete. It is essentially a "sixth edition" and one that appears to be moving backwards in the direction of 3.5E. The fact you are giving more feats also means the levels will not map as efficiently to CR.

I think a lot of people like "abusive dipping", I think that is a selling point for the game and something most players want more of, not less. I also think the fact that multiclassing is optional gives an out to the few tables where it is not welcome.

I am not saying it is awful, but I don't think it will be popular and it will be difficult to balance with characters on the current 5E system.
 

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