# D&D GeneralSubstituting 3Z7 for D20

#### DeDiceManCometh

##### Explorer
I've been toying with the idea of substituting a 3Z7 (which is my entirely made-up notation for what is effectively 3D8-3, but suggesting the dice physically be numbered 0 - 7) for the D20.

Triple 7s = crit, Triple 0s = fumble (I kinda like the implied nomenclature: "7s UP" and "Zeroed Out")

Would this create extreme problems?

#### TwoSix

##### "Diegetics", by L. Ron Gygax
The mean is the same, the range is only slightly expanded (0-21 instead of 1-20). It has all the classic problems of trying to use a bell curve distribution instead of the d20 systems linear distribution. +1 bonuses are more valuable if the DC for checks is at the peak of the bell curve, and much less valuable for DCs that are higher or lower than the bell curve peak. Additionally, if crit/fumbles are triple 7/triple 0, you're changing crits from being a 1/20 chance to a 1/512 chance; basically going from a once a session or so occurrence per player to closer to once or twice a campaign.

#### Lakesidefantasy

##### Hero
With this system we would rarely get a critical hit or a critical fumble. It would be much rarer than getting a1 or 20 on a d20.

Some might consider that a good thing.

##### Legend
I feel like the corner of the fanbase who got physically angry are 'sometimes we add 2+2' are going to stand for 'we always do 3d8-3'.

#### Bill Zebub

##### “It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
I’d have a success with one 7 mean something extra, two 7’s something great, and three 7’s would be ungodly.

#### DND_Reborn

##### The High Aldwin
Would this create extreme problems?
Depends on what your goals are...?

I've found 4d6-4 works well, personally. and gives a range of 0-20 with an average 10, and thankfully d6's with 0-5 are already out there (I own 10 of them ).

#### Sorcerers Apprentice

##### Hero
I’d have a success with one 7 mean something extra, two 7’s something great, and three 7’s would be ungodly.
Could add to that with one 0 means something unusual happens, two 0's something bad happens, and 000 results in something terrible.

if the DC is low then succeeeding even when rolling one 0 or even 00 isn't out of the question, so this would mix things up both for success and failure.

#### aco175

##### Legend
Ohhh, I get to buy new dice!

#### David Neuschulz

##### Explorer
The mean is the same, the range is only slightly expanded (0-21 instead of 1-20). It has all the classic problems of trying to use a bell curve distribution instead of the d20 systems linear distribution. +1 bonuses are more valuable if the DC for checks is at the peak of the bell curve, and much less valuable for DCs that are higher or lower than the bell curve peak. Additionally, if crit/fumbles are triple 7/triple 0, you're changing crits from being a 1/20 chance to a 1/512 chance; basically going from a once a session or so occurrence per player to closer to once or twice a campaign.
I'm not a math person. Can you quantify how drastic the difference is for a DC10 (or DC11) and a DC15 or DC20 under a bell curve like this?

#### David Neuschulz

##### Explorer
I feel like the corner of the fanbase who got physically angry are 'sometimes we add 2+2' are going to stand for 'we always do 3d8-3'.
If you mean that people will hate on the "Z" notation because it decouples the number of sides on the dice while replacing it with the notion of the "max #" on the dice,... yes, I have already been incinerated with flames on that. Not on these forums, however.

Replies
13
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
17
Views
2K
Replies
79
Views
14K
Replies
19
Views
4K