Subtle Brilliance...

[Tellerve]

ok, got grim tales today and got some initial thoughts and questions.

First off, some asthetics. The binding of the book I'm a bit worried about, as right out of the amazon box it was making those sorta smackin' sounds of the glue pulling away. That and the front cover has a wicked bend to it already. Hopefully it won't be a huge issue though. As for the insides, the layout is clear, although so far it seems to not divide easily between chapters. Pretty nit picky I know, but that's my opinion. Finally, the art of Jeremy Mohler I really like, Scott Purdy is good, the rest I'm not a fan of at all.

Now, onto some questions, errata, comments;

1st: Criticals now only occur if you pay an action point correct?
2nd: sneak attacks don't occur on flanking situations?
3rd: Should power attack use the 3.5 dnd or stay as is in modern d20 variant?
4th: standing is listed as no AoO on the list, but under the description it says it does provoke
5th: could a wild caster get a +2 on spellcraft if they had knowledge (arcana) and/or religion to the appropriate spell. Or is there innate spell casting ability precluding them from this bonus
6th: in the spellcraft writeup it says you get a +2 for knowledge (arcana). Should divine casters get a +2 as well if they have knowledge (religion)

All in all, I'm liking what I've read so far. Only the criticals, power attack and I think the way of handling shotguns have made me sorta squirm a bit. But that is really minor as I can just change it easily for my campaign. The things I heard about that got me excited are still getting me excited so that's great.

Thanks wulf

Tellerve

 

[Cheiromancer]

Bumped for Cheiromancer.

[snip]

Got it. In place of the tables, I've been thinking about this method:

xp = (CR^2)*300/Y

"xp" is the xp award per character level. The expression (CR^2)*300 is the "raw xp" and can be calculated in advance for each monster; if there are several in an encounter, you just add up the values of the individual monsters. Then divide the total by Y, which is kind of the power level of the party: You get Y by taking each character's CR, squaring it, and taking the sum. The value of Y only changes when the party gains/loses a new member, or someone levels up, so it can be calculated ahead of time.

Example: A CR 13 vrock vs a party consisting of two CR 20 heroes, and 2 CR 18 heroes (one has 15 character levels and a +3 LA from being a werewolf).

A CR 13 monster has a raw value of 50,700. (13*13*300)

Y is 400+400+324+324 = 1448

The xp per character level is 35.01 (50,700/1448). The 20th level heroes get 700 xp (20*35), the 18th level character gets 630 xp (18*35), and the werewolf gets 525 xp (15*35).

 

[jonrog1]

All in all, I'm liking what I've read so far. Only the criticals, power attack and I think the way of handling shotguns have made me sorta squirm a bit. But that is really minor as I can just change it easily for my campaign. The things I heard about that got me excited are still getting me excited so that's great.

Thanks wulf

Tellerve

I actually just ported GM"s system of action points for crits into my 3.5 D&D game, using the "action points reset at level-up" variant. My players' heads did indeed SNAP around at that, but they quickly got into the whole "spend it now, or save it for later" balance without obsessing about it. Also, it's pretty fun when you, as the GM, crit and hand out the point -- when I said "Jo, take an action point", I got "Hey, great -- ooo. bad."

I looked over my previous hyperbole-laden post, and noted my issue with non-lethal combat and Wulf's subsequent confusion. I am a little puzzled about why you;d include the brawl/knockout chain of feats while not using the non-lethal damage/knockout rules from D20 Modern -- or am I missing something?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Personally that series of feats works fine when you add d20Modern's nonlethal and DnD's nonlethal together. IE, giving nonlethal damage a MDT save.

Moderately more book-keeping, but I really like the way it works.

--fje

 

[Tellerve]

right, not sure if it is explained well enough in GT, but yeah, with nonlethal and those feats basically the damage does accumulate like normal nonlethal, however, you have that nice chance of actually knocking the guy out. Which so often happens in movies and whatnot with the back of the revolver to the guys neck or whatever.

jonrog- yeah, the action points I guess I'm still a bit unsure of, as in modern, unless I misunderstood you could concievably hoarde yours if you wanted. But it appears that isnt' the case in GT. I kinda like the idea that if you really wanted to save up you could, obviously forgoing times when you could have used them. As opposed to everyone always starting out with the same amount.

Again, very minor things, and I'm just happy to see a d20 system move away from job based classes and more into a mechanic that lets people make the characters they wanna make. And finally I can have a medieval campaign with fighters that are actually good at spotting something, thank god!

Tellerve

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

First off, some asthetics. The binding of the book I'm a bit worried about, as right out of the amazon box it was making those sorta smackin' sounds of the glue pulling away. That and the front cover has a wicked bend to it already.

I've seen books like this before out of this print run, and it concerns me too. I've been told that it's due to differences in humidity from location to location. If it becomes a problem, rest assured you can reach me and take care of it. I just bent my book real hard counter-wise and it's been fine since.

As for the insides, the layout is clear, although so far it seems to not divide easily between chapters. Pretty nit picky I know, but that's my opinion.

Grr... You really know how to dig a guy. Believe me, those chapter breaks bug the crap out of me too. Would have been so nice to start every chapter on the left side of the spread, but... eh. Had to conserve white space.

Finally, the art of Jeremy Mohler I really like, Scott Purdy is good, the rest I'm not a fan of at all.

Sorry. I don't want to get into the who's who of my favorites, though suffice to say some of those artists you'll see in future Bad Axe products, some you won't, and in some cases it's not even my call because they've got the talent to move on to better things.

1st: Criticals now only occur if you pay an action point correct?

Correct.

2nd: sneak attacks don't occur on flanking situations?

I don't recommend it. With the MDT lower across the board, even as a Talent, I think it makes sneak attack too powerful. If you want to allow it when flanking, I'd probably require them to spend an action point to do it.

3rd: Should power attack use the 3.5 dnd or stay as is in modern d20 variant?

If you're one of the statistically-anal whiners who encouraged WOTC to change a perfectly good feat in the first place, I suppose you might want to upgrade. Because of the lower MDT, you might quickly find all your players adopting 2H weapons and power attacking to bust the MDT all the time. If you're statistically minded, you might want to factor that into your analysis of the benefits of power attack in this system, and remember that what seems good for the players turns real bad in the hands of hordes of their enemies.

4th: standing is listed as no AoO on the list, but under the description it says it does provoke

Oops, I will add that to my list of errata!

5th: could a wild caster get a +2 on spellcraft if they had knowledge (arcana) and/or religion to the appropriate spell. Or is there innate spell casting ability precluding them from this bonus

It depends on how you handle wild adepts in your game and where they learn new spells. If their spell knowledge is granted to them by occult forces, I don't think they need to bother with a spellcraft roll at all. Otherwise, NO, they don't get any bonus at all; this was deliberate wording on my part.

6th: in the spellcraft writeup it says you get a +2 for knowledge (arcana). Should divine casters get a +2 as well if they have knowledge (religion)

No, they shouldn't. Knowledge (arcana) does not necessarily apply only to arcane magic. I don't think you want to read more into those two skills (Spellcraft and K:a) than already exists in D&D.

Only the criticals, power attack and I think the way of handling shotguns have made me sorta squirm a bit.

I've heard a couple of comments on shotguns so far, actually; you aren't alone. You are the first to mention criticals/action points, and I have to admit it takes some getting used to after years of free-wheelin' D&D criticals. Remember that MDT is lower; lots of changes were made to keep that from overpowering the game.

The things I heard about that got me excited are still getting me excited so that's great.

That IS great, thank YOU!

Let me know how that binding holds up on you. I have no problem howling away at the printer on your behalf, believe me!

Wulf

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

xp = (CR^2)*300/Y

A very exact method. Mind if I YOINK it? I'm working on lots of Grim Tales spreadsheets at the moment, I'm sure that has a place. (I think CRGreathouse or BryonD may have already served me up that gem, actually...)

Wulf

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I am a little puzzled about why you'd include the brawl/knockout chain of feats while not using the non-lethal damage/knockout rules from D20 Modern -- or am I missing something?

Well, yeah, there's the chance of doing an instant knockout, but I just really like the rapid scaling of non-lethal damage, free criticals, and overall unarmed competence (to hit bonuses built into the feats!). I think it's TOTALLY worth it, and maybe time a few PCs (and GMs) realized that not every enemy has to freakin' DIE to make an attack worthwhile.

With a lot of Brawling you can beat the bejeezus out of a lot of Nazis, you know what I mean?

Wulf

 

[Brutorz Bill]

Good Stuff!

Haven't said much on these boards in awhile, but I just had to chime in and say how impressed I am with Grim Tales. It has inspired me to start up a new PA Campaign, I'll be pulling mutation rules from Darwin's World 2nd ed., as well as, a few things from the new Gamma World, but the core of the Campaign will be Grim Tales. I can't wait tp get started! Awesome stuff.
Regards,
Brutorz Bill

 

[Turanil]

Wulf: I heard you mention this errata several times. Where can this document be downloaded? If it is available at all?