Sudden Horizontal Syndrome

[Silver Griffon]

Anyone who has been on either side of a martial arts throw knows that being slammed into the ground hurts. It has always bothered me a little bit that when a monk "trips" a character it doesn't hurt. Being tripped unexpectedly with a chain, flail or other weapon also results in being slammed into the ground. Hard. When you are forcibly introduced to the ground, it is much worse than just falling down. (Although that can be damaging as well, its not very heroic to have your wizard break a hip on the way to the john. )So, I would like input on the following house rules for trip attacks.

Being tripped causes 1d6 falling damage. This damage is subdual damage. Very soft ground reduces the damage to 1d4 subdual. Someone who is tripped can make a Jump or Tumble check (DC15) to avoid the falling damage entirely. Note that the Jump skill can be used untrained, so anyone has a chance to avoid this damage.

This sparks the idea for some new feats:

Mighty Trip(Fighter, General)
You can put extra force behind your trip attacks.
Benefit: When you trip someone, you can add your Str modifier to any falling damage the target suffers from the trip. If you performed the trip with two hands or with a two-handed weapon, you add 1.5 times your Str modifier.
Normal: Strength does not add to damage suffered from a trip.

Great Trip(Fighter, General)
You can throw an opponent to the ground with lethal force.
Prerequisites: Mighty Trip
Benefit: When you trip someone, you deal real damage instead of subdual damage.

Breakfall(General)
You are highly skilled at the art of reducing falling damage.
Benefit: You get a +4 competence bonus on all Jump or Tumble checks made to reduce falling damage.


Edited due to feedback.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Improved Trip covers this. The damage from the extra attack could be considered the damage from hitting the ground.
Or use Great Throw from Oriental Adventures.

Geoff.

 

[Silver Griffon]

I see Great Throw in the new feats table in OA, but I can't find the feat. Is it out of alphabetical order or have I found an error in my printing of the book?

Anyway, I think you miss my point. I am proposing a house rule whereby all trip attacks deal damage. This would not require a feat, it would be a change to the description of the consequences of a successful trip maneuver. The Mighty Trip feat I present above is a feat to allow Str mod to be added to that damage.

The idea is that being slammed into the ground by a martial throw or a trip with a weapon hurts. Anyone who is not injured by a trip attack has made a successful Jump or Tumble check. What I am asking here is whether or not this added bit of realism is too much for the abstract nature of D&D combat. I don't believe that it is, as I have made it possible to avoid the damage altogether with a skill check using a pre-existing game mechanic (falling).

Also, I think that Improved Trip is clearly representative of a quick follow-up attack, and not the damage from striking the ground. It is more closely akin to an AoO in its nature.

 

[Saepiroth]

I see Great Throw in the new feats table in OA, but I can't find the feat. Is it out of alphabetical order or have I found an error in my printing of the book?

:monocle:

wow, that's surprising. i had never noticed that that feat was missing from my print, ever.

 

[Ace]

There is an update on Wizards site that has the stats you need


I will attach it

 

[Saepiroth]

There is an update on Wizards site that has the stats you need


I will attach it

oh god, that's great. they had to errata in a whole feat they forgot to print.

i love it! i just love it!

 

[Saeviomagy]

Sorry, but this rule just doesn't cut it. 1d6 is far too much for a trip. Given that it doubles the unarmed damage of the average individual, and that such a trip would be quite likely to kill the average person (ie - a first level character with rolled hitpoints and average constitution), it's just way out of hand.

I know for a fact that I really hate people bringing their real-world experience to a game, and most people are going to think I sound like a prat for saying this, but:

I've done Judo. I've been flung around plenty. I'd say the absolute worst thing that's going to happen to you from being tripped by someone who's relatively unskilled (ie - has no special feat) is going to be a couple of points of subdual damage. That's it.

From a skilled individual, improved trip fits the bill perfectly. How hard you get hit is going to depend on the skill and strength of the person tripping you.

 

[Silver Griffon]

I've done Judo. I've been flung around plenty. I'd say the absolute worst thing that's going to happen to you from being tripped by someone who's relatively unskilled (ie - has no special feat) is going to be a couple of points of subdual damage. That's it.

First, Thank you for your reply.
If you've done Judo, then surely you remember that the first thing you learned was how to fall. You are specially trained to avoid damage from flips and throws. Just like a character with ranks in Tumble would be in my proposed house rule. (No, I am not suggesting that a few martial arts classes would give someone ranks in Tumble, just that it provides breakfall training, which is represented in D&D with Tumble.) Most students spend weeks or months concentrating on little more than breakfalls in karate, an art devoted to striking and not to pins, flips, and control maneuvers like Judo is. Only after this is learned do they learn to strike. I am sure an art like Judo includes even more breakfall training. Japanese police officers learn Aikido throws because a single throw usually incapacitates a suspect. In fact, part of this training concentrates on limiting the impact suffered by the suspect so as not to kill him unintentionally! However, that being said, it is not a heroic image to think of your character being killed by an outstretched foot. (Even if hundreds of people do suffer slip-and-fall fatalities every year.) D&D combat is not meant to be that realistic or deadly. So, I think your suggestion of subdual damage has merit. I am editing the post to reflect that and adding another feat to make the throw cause real damage. Again, I think that any trip should be damaging in some way even without a feat. After all, the weapons capable of a trip attack either already require a feat to use (Exotic Weapon Proficiency) or deal more than 1d6 damage without having to confirm with an opposed check. And tripping unarmed requires the Imroved Unarmed Strike feat or a death wish.

 

[Michael Morris]

Again, I think that any trip should be damaging in some way even without a feat. After all, the weapons capable of a trip attack either already require a feat to use (Exotic Weapon Proficiency) or deal more than 1d6 damage without having to confirm with an opposed check. And tripping unarmed requires the Imroved Unarmed Strike feat or a death wish.

If people died that easily from falls American Football would have to be banned for the sheer deludge of fatalities. School yard bullies who trip the geek in the class would kill the geek half the time. People would die all the time from casual falls. The world wouldn't be safe.

If you think a fall from a trip should hurt as much as a 10 foot fall, then jump off a 10' high building or tree. Trust me, that hurts a LOT more.

Remember, average commoner has 1-4 hp. That means a stab from a dagger should kill him about 1/2 the time since it also has a d4. 1d6 damage from a trip is WAY out of line. Being knocked prone is it's own problem - it provokes Attacks of Opportunity from everyone but the tripper.

And don't bring the Judo arguements here. I studied Jujitsu, which is Judo's ancestor (Judo is a watered-down version of Jujitsu). Much of the damage taken in the falls caused by a martial artist is by causing the foe to fall badly. We instinctively throw out arms and hands to break falls and in any martial arts class the first thing your taught to do is refine this. The thing they teach you in Jujitsu (but not in its cousin Judo) is how to trap limbs of a falling opponent so that they cannot properly break their fall. For instance, in one technique you trap the foes arm and as the fall you break their arm over your knee using their momentum. Pretty nasty stuff Jujistu...