Sudden Metamagic Feats from Complete Arcane

[Thanee]

I think only Sudden Maximize is going to see much use. Sudden Empower is ok-ish, but obviously not as good.

All the others are too weak and only worth it in a campaign tailored to their need, and even then I can only see Silent and Still being of any use at all. But 1/day is really harsh for those.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FireLance]

As a player, I will exploit them for all they are worth.

As a DM, I don't think they are too powerful, although I find they add more unpredictability to the game. If the player doesn't manage his resources well, some encounters can be too easy or too difficult (too bad for the party).

However, I would personally prefer if there was a single Sudden Metamagic feat, which allowed you to apply each of the metamagic feats you know to any spell cast without increasing the casting time or preparing it ahead of time once per day.

One way to moderate the sudden metamagic feats is to impose a restriction that they can only be applied to spells X levels lower than the highest-level spell the character can cast (or half the character's level, if it is higher), where X is the spell level increase of the normal metamagic feat. So, in order to apply Sudden Maximize to a 3rd-level spell such as fireball, you have to be able to cast 6th-level spells, or be 12th level.

 

[Li Shenron]

The idea of a new mechanic isn't bad itself, but these feats clearly have received an outrageously small attention from the designers They are clearly not near in power even with each other, and the prerequisites are ridiculous.

As for the 1/day limit in general, some of the original metamagic feats aren't useful more than 1-2 times per day, but definitely some others are.

 

[Darkness]

There recently was a discussion here in GD about a player using Sudden Maximize. Check it out; it had some good points IMO.

I find Complete Arcane very useful - more useful than just about any other recent WotC book, in fact, and there were some good ones.

I agree with others that the prerequisites of some of the Sudden MM feats don't seem appropriate. Specifically, the prereqs for Sudden Quicken are too high and those for Sudden Maximize are a bit too generous (I'd change the latter to Maximize Spell).

Sudden Silent and Sudden Still are too weak.

Sudden Maximize, OTOH, is very strong. Maybe even too strong; I haven't made up my mind yet.

Sudden Empower is generally useless, considering you could take Sudden Maximize instead. Unless you take both feats, maybe.

 

[MerricB]

Sudden Maximise is a little like the Surprise round in combat.

A 5th Wizard walks into a room. Surprising everyone there, he lobs a fireball. Next round he wins initiative, and lobs another fireball.

Hmm. That's 10d6 damage (avg 35 damage).

A 5th level Wizard walks into a room. Everyone starts to fight, then he use a Sudden Maximise on a fireball, dealing 5d6 damage maxed (total 30 damage).

You could also compare it to the tactical use of an invisibility spell - it gives a short-term advantage to the wizard. However, there are also the major drawbacks of the feat.

Because it is only once per day, you really have the possibility of wasting it. What good is a Sudden Maximise if spell resistance foils your spell? Or if the target has Evasion and makes their reflex save? And was that the main opponent or just an illusion?

There is also the trap of comparing it to normal metamagic. Compare it to something like Rapid Shot instead.

Normal Metamagic is weak for normal wizards (with the exception of very high-level wizards, especially with Quicken Spell), but very good for sorcerers. The Sudden Metamagic feats really bring metamagic into the hands of Wizards, especially at the lower levels (below 10th).

Cheers!

 

[Kershek]

I still think a Sudden Maximize Disintegrate at 11th level doing 132 damage to a single target is over the top, especially when you can have enemies do the same thing back to you and some characters will likely be dead, even with a save for half.

Also, I don't understand how Empowered Spell wouldn't work off the maximized number. If you rolled 20 damage on a fireball, you don't re-roll for the Empowered part - you just add 10 more. Therefore, why would you "re-roll" on a maximized fireball?

 

[Darkness]

I don't understand how Empowered Spell wouldn't work off the maximized number.

See PHB, p.98, upper left for details.

Basically, it's just like stacking multipliers. I.e., you apply each separately.

Or if you don't have your PHB handy, here's what the SRD says:[sblock]MAXIMIZE SPELL[METAMAGIC]
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. A maximized spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

An empowered, maximized spell gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result.[/sblock]

 

[Doug McCrae]

I still think a Sudden Maximize Disintegrate at 11th level doing 132 damage to a single target is over the top, especially when you can have enemies do the same thing back to you and some characters will likely be dead, even with a save for half.

How about a sudden maximised twinned scorching ray for a straight 144 damage, no save. Pretty sweet, eh?

I don't feel either is overpowered cause at the same level the cleric is dishing out 110 point Harms to a single target, save for half. And it doesn't even cost him a feat. Frankly you need Sudden Maximise to keep up with the god botherers.

Also, I don't understand how Empowered Spell wouldn't work off the maximized number. If you rolled 20 damage on a fireball, you don't re-roll for the Empowered part - you just add 10 more. Therefore, why would you "re-roll" on a maximized fireball?

Dunno why, it's just the rules. See the Maximize Spell description, PHB pages 97-98. The actual relevant bit is on page 98.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I still think a Sudden Maximize Disintegrate at 11th level doing 132 damage to a single target is over the top, especially when you can have enemies do the same thing back to you and some characters will likely be dead, even with a save for half.

Well, compare it to the 3.0 Disintegrate, or the current Slay Living and/or any other instant-death spell, I don´t think it is that bad. And it is not a save for half damage, it is a save for 5d6 points(maximized to 30 in this case) , IIRC.
Considering the fact that it only affects a single target (unlike fireball or cone of cold), it should be a bit better...

 

[Rashak Mani]

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