Suggested Starting Level Question
Crothian
First Post
6 PCs I'd start at 9th
My group when I was playing started this at 9th level. We had five people, but it was an odd group. Our best strategy was the summoner conjuroring creatures and then my archer just cutting them down. Over all, we didn't find the adventure to be that challenging, or fun but that';s a different thread.
My group when I was playing started this at 9th level. We had five people, but it was an odd group. Our best strategy was the summoner conjuroring creatures and then my archer just cutting them down. Over all, we didn't find the adventure to be that challenging, or fun but that';s a different thread.
Aust Diamondew
First Post
6 PCs I'd do level 9 or 8.
Nonlethal Force
First Post
KarinsDad said:
Eh. i suppose its how you look at being a DM. Me, if I am going to take on the responsibility of being a DM I assume the ability to make the adventure fit the party - NOT the other way around. Turning a party of 2 opposing monsters into a party of 3 is not really all that hard. [Talking generally here, because specifics need not be discussed.] And, if a treasure calls for 100 gold pieces (figuring thats 25 per player normally ...) making it to be 175 isn't really that hard either. But then again, it goes back to why a person is DMing. Some DM because noone else will. I DM because I want to make a story that works and is exciting for the party. Hence, make the adventure fit the party, not the other way around. But, that's just my style. Others are welcome to have whatever style they want.
KarinsDad said:
Again, the style of the DM. As the DM, the monsters can play smart or stupid. You can have the monsters gang up or not. So no, it doesn't automatically increase the chance of PC death. You may have more monsters to deal more damage, but you have more players who can also focus their attacks and bring them down quicker. After a few encounters, a good DM should have a good feel for this and choose tactics appropriately for the party level (novice, experienced, etc...)
I still think that the best thing to do is just spend a little time making the module appropriate. If the numbers are now 4 to six, it really just means adding an extra opponent to the already existing encounters every so often. And, increasing the suggested wealth to a factor of 150%. So, take the treasures that are listed and multiply by 1.5 and every other time a magic weapon is listed, add another on of an equitable level that is already there. That really isn't so hard, is it?
Shin Okada
Explorer
I support Nonlethal Force's suggestion.
By CR/ECL calculation, when there are 6 PCs of 9th-level, they are roughly equal to a 4 PCs of 10th-level. So just starting from 9th level could be fine. But I prefer starting from 10th and adding some monsters and treasures.
I have not actually read or played that specific module. But every so often, sold modules are assuming that the party has spellcaster of (almost) exactly that level. Especially a cleric. I mean, an adventure designed for 6th-level party is assuming that the party can use water breathing, an adventure designed for 10th-level party is assuming they can raise dead person, and so on. So, sometimes a huge party of lower level spends hard time solving the module.
Also, IMHO it is more fan to fight against many monsters instead of small number of stronger monsters. So, when there are several monsters in an encounter, just increase the number by 50%. When there is a single big monster, add some weaker monsters to raise the Encounter Level by 1. For example, if there is a CR 10 monster in an encounter, you can add a CR 8 monster (or two CR 6 monsters).
Those kind of modifications are not that much difficult for a DM. Especially easier if you have something like cards from D&D miniatures. Just find monsters of appropriate CR. Just write the name and number of monsters you add, onto the adventure book (or other paper). Grab the miniatures and cards and you are ready to DM.
By CR/ECL calculation, when there are 6 PCs of 9th-level, they are roughly equal to a 4 PCs of 10th-level. So just starting from 9th level could be fine. But I prefer starting from 10th and adding some monsters and treasures.
I have not actually read or played that specific module. But every so often, sold modules are assuming that the party has spellcaster of (almost) exactly that level. Especially a cleric. I mean, an adventure designed for 6th-level party is assuming that the party can use water breathing, an adventure designed for 10th-level party is assuming they can raise dead person, and so on. So, sometimes a huge party of lower level spends hard time solving the module.
Also, IMHO it is more fan to fight against many monsters instead of small number of stronger monsters. So, when there are several monsters in an encounter, just increase the number by 50%. When there is a single big monster, add some weaker monsters to raise the Encounter Level by 1. For example, if there is a CR 10 monster in an encounter, you can add a CR 8 monster (or two CR 6 monsters).
Those kind of modifications are not that much difficult for a DM. Especially easier if you have something like cards from D&D miniatures. Just find monsters of appropriate CR. Just write the name and number of monsters you add, onto the adventure book (or other paper). Grab the miniatures and cards and you are ready to DM.
green slime
First Post
I'd keep the level of the characters at 10th, and make adjustments for the opponents if it was coming across as being too easy.
I played through CotSQ, we were 6 or 7 players, we started at the 10th level. No worries. There is always one player who can't make it to a particular session.
You can't really compare total character levels like your DM was talking about. If you could, it would be feasible to send 40 1st level characters into the fray. Some encounters just assume a capacity for damage absorption / spells / abilities that lower level characters do not possess. I wouldn't lower the average level for the group below 9th. The party may succeed in an encounter, but will likely suffer more deaths to do so, just through the shear brittleness of a lower level character.
I played through CotSQ, we were 6 or 7 players, we started at the 10th level. No worries. There is always one player who can't make it to a particular session.
You can't really compare total character levels like your DM was talking about. If you could, it would be feasible to send 40 1st level characters into the fray. Some encounters just assume a capacity for damage absorption / spells / abilities that lower level characters do not possess. I wouldn't lower the average level for the group below 9th. The party may succeed in an encounter, but will likely suffer more deaths to do so, just through the shear brittleness of a lower level character.
Nonlethal Force said:
Except that we are talking about a module of Drow.
Drow should ALWAYS be played smart. Sure, there are other creatures in the module who are stupid, but if you increase the number of Drow by 50% because there are 6 PCs instead of 4 AND you play the Drow smart like you should, you will create more PC deaths. Numbers (e.g. overloading a flank) are very telling in DND and the DM who ignores that will find out the hard way. That is, if he is playing his smart NPCs smart.
Nonlethal Force
First Post
KarinsDad said:
Okay, not to nitpik or anything, but you really don't get the idea that the author of this thread doesn't want to discuss the specifics, do you? Perhaps the author of this post didn't know who the main combatants were and now that discovery is spoiled.
Anyway .. back on point. You can add any monster you want that would make sense for the module. [Aside: See how I didn't make it specific to ruin the surprise for the author of the thread?] But this may also force the players to fight smart, too. Perhaps they might have to learn to fight in spaces that don't allow for overflanking. Or learn to be aggressive and get to the monsters and force them to draw AoO if they want to overflank a party member. This game is about learning the environment and adjusting to it. Working together and learning how to use what you got verses what is against you. To throw out a blanket statement that says increasing the number of monsters is more deadly and should be avoided focuses in on only one very narrow part of the game. Players are usually quite resiliant. They can think, too. I see no problem with upping the monster and treasure count to meet the party's needs. A good DM should be able to find that balance of challenging the party without dooming them to death. Adding players should be fun, and it just means to remake the module more appropriate. Add a little treasure and a few extra combatants and go have fun.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
There are some save-based encounters early on, so I'd suggest you not be TOO far below the recommended level & wealth. Some critters have SR, some have DR, and being lower-level than expected may result in some things being significantly un-fun.
There are also some movement-based obstacles, so a larger party may hinder you more than it helps -- even if all of you start at 10th level.
Tell the DM my advice is: add more mooks. Not necessarily better mooks, just more. That's fun for everyone IMHO.
-- N
There are also some movement-based obstacles, so a larger party may hinder you more than it helps -- even if all of you start at 10th level.
Tell the DM my advice is: add more mooks. Not necessarily better mooks, just more. That's fun for everyone IMHO.
-- N
