D&D 5E Suggestion: Broken?

[Flamestrike]

No. "F.... off" is never a reasonable suggestion. Actually it is not a suggestion at all.

It literally is a demand to leave.

Its a legit suggestion, and is reasonable in this case.

Presuming I allowed the caster to use it via the Aboleths telepathy, id have the Aboleth retreat to its lair, and order its minions to 'Deal with the PCs'.

 

[Oofta]

With some of these things, it will always be a DM call. For example, some people will make command much more powerful than I do. For example if the target is standing next to a cliff, does the command "jump" force them to jump off the edge of the cliff? I'd say no - the command can be interpreted many ways.

In the case of "f* off", well that doesn't really tell the target what to do. Stand there and don't take any aggressive action against the caster for a round might do the trick.

 

[FrogReaver]

With some of these things, it will always be a DM call. For example, some people will make command much more powerful than I do. For example if the target is standing next to a cliff, does the command "jump" force them to jump off the edge of the cliff? I'd say no - the command can be interpreted many ways.

In the case of "f* off", well that doesn't really tell the target what to do. Stand there and don't take any aggressive action against the caster for a round might do the trick.

if the pc succeeds the check igo with their intent unless their intent was unreasonable.

 

[Oofta]

if the pc succeeds the check igo with their intent unless their intent was unreasonable.

So the target is responsible for reading the mind of the caster to determine what their intent is?

If that is what you are saying, I simply disagree. It turns very low level spells into the equivalent of simplified dominate. But ... like I said. If that's what your group wants go for it. I've just seen DMs abuse the power of things like command as in the target satisfies the literal meaning of the command and the DM saying "you know what I mean" and a PC being forced to jump off the cliff.

 

[FrogReaver]

This is irrelevant. An OP spell does not become less OP just because you can choose to waste it on a pathetically weak target.

which kind of proves my point. You are concerned with the power level and neutering the possibilities to lower its power To what you feel is an acceptable level.

imo suggestion is a very niche spell that often does as much harm as good. It had many restrictions on use cases that aren’t easy to overcome - language being the hardest. When you fail you escalate the situation instead of maintaining the current conversational position.

 

[FrogReaver]

So the target is responsible for reading the mind of the caster to determine what their intent is?

If that is what you are saying, I simply disagree. It turns very low level spells into the equivalent of simplified dominate. But ... like I said. If that's what your group wants go for it. I've just seen DMs abuse the power of things like command as in the target satisfies the literal meaning of the command and the DM saying "you know what I mean" and a PC being forced to jump off the cliff.

command is different. You are restricted to a 1-2 word command and have no room to be more specifiC even if you wanted to be.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Yeah, so what does F-off even mean? Maybe the Aboleth thinks the PC is suggesting the Aboleth use his tentacles to do something...you know....sexy...to him.

Aboleth are an aberation so 'f'ing' would be kind of alien to them but they are such good manipulators that they know what the intent is. It's more of a command than a suggestion anyways. But, given they were just having a chat and, assuming the spell was cast legally, I suppose it could work as intended.

"Well fine then, if you don't want to talk, I'll just leave!"

Back in 3e, there were a few instances where we did this to the DM.

Wizard: disintegrated a Hydra in the first round of combat when the hydra rolled a 1 on his save
Ranger: Fired a demon-slaying arrow at a CR 20 demon and he rolled a 1. This was one of the main Antagonists.
Our fighter never got his 1-shot kill, sadly.

This sounds more fun. Lots of potential. Aboleth's are fun.

 

[Oofta]

command is different. You are restricted to a 1-2 word command and have no room to be more specifiC even if you wanted to be.

I think suggestion can easily be either too powerful or basically useless. Where the balance is will vary by DM and group; hence my suggestion to just hash it out outside of game time if possible.

In the case of "f* off" I personally think it's too vague, but it might be perfectly okay in someone else's game. On the other hand I'd also let the caster know that I thought it was too vague so they don't waste the spell. YMMV.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think suggestion can easily be either too powerful or basically useless. Where the balance is will vary by DM and group; hence my suggestion to just hash it out outside of game time if possible.

In the case of "f* off" I personally think it's too vague, but it might be perfectly okay in someone else's game. On the other hand I'd also let the caster know that I thought it was too vague so they don't waste the spell. YMMV.

I agree with that approach. It’s the notion of too vague and no warning I find problematic.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It literally is a demand to leave.

Its a legit suggestion, and is reasonable in this case.

Presuming I allowed the caster to use it via the Aboleths telepathy, id have the Aboleth retreat to its lair, and order its minions to 'Deal with the PCs'.

And a demand is no suggestion...