Suggestion : Kill your ally.

[lukelightning]

"I'm your only true friend...your compatriots have been plotting against you and you should kill 'em before they kill you!"

I'd allow a bonus to the save, like with charm.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Except in the most unusual of circumstances, a spellcaster who endeavoured to use suggestion to compel a creature to attack its own allies should fail. There is a 5th-level spell which clearly permits this option - dominate person - and even that has the out "creature gets additional save if compelled action is clearly contrary to its nature" (e.g. I've allowed a PC to have a re-save against a dominate when compelled to attack his brother (also a PC)). A 3rd-level spell cannot, it seems to me, be as powerful as a 5th-level spell.

I have used suggestion countless times as both player and DM. The difficulty with its use comes when there are clearly differing opinions about what is a reasonable suggestion and what it not. Hence you get the arguments which prompt the question on these boards. The simple answer is - don't use the spell in a way that will allow the compelled creature to directly harm itself or its allies.

Outside of its non-combat uses, in a game mechanical sense, suggestion is a spell intended to negate an individual combatant while causing no direct harm to that combatant or its allies. It must be comparable in power to hold person. Accordingly, the following options are generally available and reasonable for a suggestion:

- the victim acts passively, e.g. "I suggest you engage no further in this combat";
- the victim carries out an action taking up valuable time and seriously diminishing his combat effectiveness, e.g. "I suggest you slowly take off your armour", or "I suggest you drop all of your weapons into that pool of water/over that cliff";
- the victim carries out an action which removes him from the battlefield, e.g. "I suggest you leave my tower and go for reinforcements at the village down the road". (I find these kind of suggestions the best, because of the long duration of the spell).

In none of these cases is the compelled creature directly harming himself or his allies.

I particularly like the use of the spell outside of combat, however. When "hit upon" by drunken louts at the local tavern, my female wizard in a previous campaign had a tendency to suggest to them that the spittoon/horse's trough was full of ale she'd just bought especially for them.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

It's two suggestions because otherwise the first clause is knowingly false. "My friends are doppelgangers? The hell you say, fiend!" The action clause then becomes entirely unreasonable.

"That pool of acid is really nice spring water? The hell you say, fiend!"

The certainty of falsehood is apparently no barrier to the spell's activity.

 

[Infiniti2000]

"That pool of acid is really nice spring water? The hell you say, fiend!"

The certainty of falsehood is apparently no barrier to the spell's activity.

A pool of acid is not necessarily a certainty of falsehood, unless the target of the suggestion poured the acid himself or already got hurt by it. In such a case, I wouldn't allow suggestion either. "You're friends are doppelgangers." however is a certainty of falsehood. Enough such that it would require a suggestion just to believe it, thus why I say it requires two suggestions: one to believe your friends are doppelgangers and another to act on it.

So, it becomes:

"That pool of acid is really nice spring water? I poured it myself! The hell you say, fiend!"

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I prefer to play Suggestion as an effect that creates the impression in the mind of the target "I have this bright idea that seems to surely be true."

That makes Suggestion weaker in combat, but potentially much stronger out of combat as there is no theorectical limit to how far this "insight" will take the target. Unless directly and very forcefully challenged on his exact reasons by someone in authority, the target will just continure to act as if he had strong justifications and not revisit his earlier "reasoning".

If you want a super-deadly combat effect, you should use Dominate Person, and not figure out overly clever and convoluted interpretations that make Suggestion more powerful than even Dominate Person. Dominate Person is much feared because the command "kill all those friends of yours" is explicitly allowed. But if someone is Dominated, I can very easily temporarily nullify it by a Magic Circle. Suggestion is both not as simple to deal with and a lower level spell, so it cannot be as effective as Dominate Person in combat.

 

[lukelightning]

How about "Join me and we will rule the universe as father and son!"

 

[heirodule]

Here are some from a recent RPGA module

from a disguised succubus

"It would be more satifsying to defeat that BBEG with your bare hands, rather than your weapon"

"Let me give you a good luck kiss before you fight the BBEG"

"Go out [into the town] and gather allies to help you"

I liked the first one. The PCs still won, but it WAS more satisfying!