Suggestions for a good fighter/sorcerer?

MerakSpielman

First Post
My intent is to have this character specialize in "buffing" spells and enhancements like True Strike (coupled with Power Attack). I intend to make use of Maximize and other metamagic feats.
The primary focus of this character will be melee, not ranged attacks. His philosophy is that a combination of magic and physical attacks is more effective than physical attacks alone.

My concerns for this character are as follows:

AC: If he's going to mingle in melee, he'll need a good AC. If he's going to cast arcane magic, he needs no armor check penalties.

HP: He'll need at least 3 to 5 sorcerer levels to get enough spells for this to work - 7 if he want's to metamagic much. But then he won't have lots of HP. I'm thinking of maxing out CON (putting highest score there and increasing it every 4th level) and leaving STR low (for the true strike/power attack combo to compinsate for).

CHA: he's not specializing in sorcery, so he's not going to get high level spells. He also isn't targeting the enemy much if at all, so has no need of high DCs. How much CHA does he need?

Time: In a fight, he would want idealy to have several "buffs" going. By the time he's done, the fight might be near over. Should he only buff up if he knows a fight is about to break out?

I'm thinking instead of Ftr/Soc he might go for Brb/Soc for the extra HP and rage.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
 

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A bit of additional info:

Campaign is starting at 1st level and characters may be evil. I'm thinking of going for the first level multiclass rules in the DMG, where you start off as a sort of 0th level character in each class. If the DM won't allow this, what Class should he take first? This is what I'm thinking for progression to 20th level:

1st: 1/2 sorcerer, 1/2 fighter or barbarian
2nd: progresses to 1 Soc/1 Ftr or Brb (hereafter just Fighter, but Brb is possible)
3rd: Ftr 2
4th: Soc 2
5th: Soc 3
6th: Ftr 3
7th: Ftr 4
8th: Ftr 5
9th: Soc 4
10th: Ftr 6
11th: Soc 5
12th: Ftr 7
13th: Ftr 8
14th: Soc 6
15th: Ftr 9
16th: Soc 7
17th: Ftr 10
18th: Ftr 11
19th: Ftr 12
20th: Ftr 13
 

There are two good PrC's for that kind of Fighter/Spellcaster Combo (both can be found in Tome & Blood)
Spellsword: middle BAB (between Sor and Ftr), HD d8, New Spellcaster level every 2nd PrC level, other goodies like Arcane Spell Failure Reduction.

Bladesinger: Fighter type (HD d8, BAB like Fighter) with his own spell progression (casts like a wizard): Only level 1-4, only spells that make you better at fighting (including Haste, True Strike, Greater Magic Weapon) or defend you (Improved Invisibility, Mirror Image, Stoneskin, Shield, Mage Armor, Fire Shield,...). Also limited to fight with a longsword (and a free off-hand) and light or no armor. But has a lot of goodies (over the levels) if he doesn't disregard these restrictions: Int Bonus to AC, Take 10 for Concentration to cast defensively (meaning that most bladesingers never have to roll), one free spell per round (only if you take the full attack action), no arcane spell failure, one extra attack per round (full attack needed, -2 to all attacks), bonus feats (metamagic and the dodge and expertise trees, and stuff related to longswords).
 

I have just one piece of advice for the moment: Make sure that the group you play in is not full of powergamers because if they are, you are going to be completely outshined by them in almost every circumstance.

Note that at 9th level, you are just going to be getting access to 2nd level spells. A dedicated wizard will be able to cast 5th level spells by that point. Forget metamagic until late, late in your character's career.

As far as fighting goes, you will have a poor BAB compared to other fighter types of your level. Your AC will be poor because you won't want to wear heavy armor and your hit points will be dismal thanks to 4 levels worth of d4's by 9th level. It doesn't get much better from there on out.

Please note that nowhere in there did I say that it wouldn't be fun to roleplay this character. But powerwise, you are going to be well behind those who stick with a single profession.

My advice if you want to play a combo fighter/magic using type is to go straight cleric. Pick a couple domains that help you out and you can wear good armor, have decent hit points and still buff yourself all day long.

Good luck whatever your choice.
 

Someone will inevitably mention the Dragon Disciple. Something a little more interesting IMHO is the Dragon Warrior, found in Path of the Sword. To qualify, you need to be able to cast arcane spells spontaneously, and the ability to rage, so it's basically built for a Barbarian/Sorcerer. Like the Dragon Disciple, you gain dragon-like abilities, like growing claws and teeth while raging, elemental resistance of his dragon-type, and a breath weapon usable while raging. The Dragon Warrior does not progress in spellcasting ability, so it's not exactly what you're looking for, but it's pretty cool as a warrior-with-magical-abilities.
 

KaeYoss said:
There are two good PrC's for that kind of Fighter/Spellcaster Combo (both can be found in Tome & Blood)
Spellsword: middle BAB (between Sor and Ftr), HD d8, New Spellcaster level every 2nd PrC level, other goodies like Arcane Spell Failure Reduction.
I'll second this as a good idea (read... enter as soon as possible) rather then keeping two core classes going at once. This way, once you hit 21st level, you just continue into the EPIC Spellsword class... <WARNING - HOUSE RULE> that way you don't have to get one of the core classes above 20th before gaining EPIC class bonus feats. ;)
 

I would very much like to follow some of these suggestions, but there is a small hitch. I am the only person in my group who owns any of the splatbooks. Everybody else just has the 3 core books, including the DM for this campaign. He may or may not allow prestige classes from books he doesn't own. He might decide they are inappropriate for his campaign. I was planning around core classes based on this possibility.

I probably shoulda mentioned that before.
 

You might want to just take a level or two of Sorcerer and go Fighter the rest of the way. Take True Strike, Shield, Mage Armor, or the like, then invest in some wands.

A Fighter 18/Sorcerer 2 isn't really going to be at a disadvantage against a Fighter 20, and may even be a little better.
 

Kai Lord said:
You might want to just take a level or two of Sorcerer and go Fighter the rest of the way. Take True Strike, Shield, Mage Armor, or the like, then invest in some wands.

A Fighter 18/Sorcerer 2 isn't really going to be at a disadvantage against a Fighter 20, and may even be a little better.
or go the other way... 4th Fighter/16th Sorcerer. Pretty good, all around character.

OR!

Be a Paladin/Sorcerer of some mix... for lots of CHR type goodness!
 

Well first thing I'll second what the previous poster said: be prepared to be outclassed by any other powergamers.

A perfectly min-maxed fighter/wizard is about as effective as a fighter constructed with no concern for min-maxing whatsoever. (Although he's better than a poorly constructed fighter).

#2. You're shooting yourself in the foot by going fighter/sorceror unless you go dragon disciple. (And in that case, you only want one or two levels of sorceror). Fighter/Wizard is a much better combination since you can use the intelligence as an AC bonus for the duelist class and as a prerequisite for expertise. Fighters have very little synergy with charisma. Far more significantly, however, wizards get their spells earlier. If you work with a 1/1 progression, by the time your fighter/sorceror is sixth level he still won't have 2nd level spells. If fighter comes first in the class lineup, the fighter/sorceror will get a single second level spell at 8th level. OTOH, a wizard will get a second level spell at 6th level. If you want the fighter/wizard to be able to cast the spells as many times/day as a sorceror, just specialize and prepare one of your four spells (at each level) in each of your four slots (2 for being an even levelled wizard, one for specialization, one for int bonus). Now you can cast as many spells per day at your highest level as the sorceror and you have more flexibility because you can pick any of your four spells on any particular day. At odd numbered levels, you get an even better deal because you can actually cast spells of one level higher than the sorceror.

#3. Bladesinger is a good class but it's really designed for a fighter/wizard as they have int based progression and bonusses. It's also designed for a character with only one or two wizard levels since it has a seperate spell progression.

#4. How much charisma do you need? It depends. If you want to pack the spellcasting power, you'll need at least a 14 and count on using all your increases for charisma and getting a cloak of charisma ASAP. If you only want a couple levels (up to 5 levels), an 11 or a 12 will suffice.

#5. Suggested progressions:
1. Pal
2. Pal
3. Sor
4. Sor
5. Sor
6. Sor
7-11. Spellsword
12-20. Sacred Exorcist (Defenders of the Faith).
You'll end up with 8th level arcane spells, very good saves, reasonable fighting ability (+13 BAB and feats), no arcane spell failure from your mithril breastplate, and some other nifty abilities.

or for a chaotic character more oriented towards melee
1. Ftr
2. Ftr
3. Sor
4. Sor
5. Ftr
6. Ftr (wp. specialization)
7. Sor
8. Sor
9. Sor
10. Sor (pick haste or blink as your 3rd level spell)
11-20. Holy Liberator
This way you end up with a +17 BAB and the ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells

or
1. Ftr
2. Sor
3. Sor
4. Sor
5. Sor
6. Sor
7-16. Spellsword
17. Sor
18-20. Fighting Prestige class or fighter
This way you'll end up with a +14 BAB and the spellcasting ability of an 11th level sorceror--enough to run a persistent Shield. You'll also be able to run around in mithril full plate with no arcane spell failure.

Either way: some strategies:
1. You won't have as many hit points as a fighter but you can still have a reasonable amount. Make sure your con is at least 14 and select a toad familiar. In the end, you'll have a reasonable number of hit points.
2. You have sor/wizard spells for defense. Use them. You have the potential to have just about the best ACs in the game. Shield should be one of your first spells. Shield, a chain shirt, and a large shield give you a base AC of 23 at first level. Tack on a decent dex bonus and you'll be very difficult to hit. As you progress, add protection from evil, haste, and cat's grace. Blink is very effective as well if you get the expert tactician feat. Bull's strength will help you make up for a strength that will probably be mediocre and the lack of weapon specialization (at least in build #1).
3. Use your feats to enhance your fighting ability. (And to qualify for prestige classes). Your attack bonus will be a weak point for this character. Take weapon focus (that's also a prereq for Holy Liberator). If you're not the party's main stand up front fighter, consider combat reflexes and a reach weapon. If you combine it with spring attack, this will enable you to negate your opponents advantage in number of attacks. (Combined with expert tactician and the blink spell, you will probably end up with three attacks for every attack they make). The only metamagic feats that will really help you are Extend Spell and Persistent Spell (for shield) but they won't do you any good until high level so you can afford to wait.
4. You can live with Arcane Spell failure. Mage Armor doesn't last all day and will use up one of your precious spells known. A mithril chain shirt can be enchanted and is generally better. And it's only got 10% arcane spell failure. Plus, it will stack with a large shield (unlike Mage Armor).
5. You don't need Magic Missile. At least not initially. You'll do more damage casting true strike every other round and then power attacking with a greatsword, glaive, or even a longsword than you will casting a magic missile every round. Plus you can do it for twice as long and you can use true strike as an automatic disarm against humanoid opponents (So I have +24 (more if you've got a bigger weapon than your opponent) on the opposed roll at second level--beat that). Magic Missile won't really be useful for you until you hit 5th level as a sorceror and even then it won't be really really useful until you gain spellsword levels and can channel it through your sword. (True strike in haste action+Power Attack+Enchanted weapon+Weapon Damage+Magic Missile Damage (through spellsword channel) is an effective combo).
6. Keep magic items to enhance your capabilities. A scroll of Magic Weapon will let you hurt damage resistant creatures early on even if you don't have it as a known spell (it's a poor choice as it doesn't scale). Similarly, a scroll of See Invisibility will help you out as you reach mid levels. Scrolls of Haste, protection from arrows, and stoneskin will also be very helpful in terms of your fighting ability. (And none of them will be very hard to successfully cast by the time you can afford them). A wand of Shield could be a boon to you if you decide to wear full-plate and go for non-verbal spells only.
7. With regard to your large shield, don't equip it until you're ready to enter melee combat. When you do, you're done casting spells (for the most part). This will enable you to keep your arcane spell failure to a minimum (if you're not using the shield, you don't suffer arcane spell failure) while still enjoying the defensive bonus of the shield when you enter combat.
8. Only cast short term buffs (shield, protection from evil, haste) when you're pretty sure combat is about to break out. Ones like Haste should be saved for the first round of combat.
9. Cast long term buffs when you think combat may occur in the next hour or so. So cast your bull's strength, cat's grace, protection from arrows, or mage armor (if you decide to use it) when you're entering a dungeon or other dangerous situation.
 
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