Level Up (A5E) Summary of major differences between A5E and O5E?

[tetrasodium]

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Just trying to figure out whether something like this would be useful in LU as well.

The classes are completely rebuilt and it's been suggested that you really need to read the rules because it would take too much to explain in detail, they are very much not just a coat of paint on the o5e phb classes thst might fit your houserule. Thst houserule is exactly the sort of "innovating" new rules changes I expect from wotc for the anniversary 5.5 edition in a few years though.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

The classes are completely rebuilt and it's been suggested that you really need to read the rules because it would take too much to explain in detail, they are very much not just a coat of paint on the o5e phb classes thst might fit your houserule. Thst houserule is exactly the sort of "innovating" new rules changes I expect from wotc for the anniversary 5.5 edition in a few years though.

I've read the through the rules, but because there are so many tweaks, some very subtle, and no summary of differences it's kind of hard to easily digest the implications. Sort of the point of the OP!

But in this case, I was more hoping for people that understand this issue in O5e and were also playtesters or people that have gotten a chance to play LU extensively since release (exist?) to comment on how this balance feels in games that have 1-2 combats a day vs. say 6-8 and various short rests.

I don't think this can easily be inferred by just reading the rules because it kinda depends on the expectations of how many short rests between encounters are expected when designing the power level of the manuvers for instance. I'm not knocking LU as a whole as it has a lot going for it, but my hypothesis is that LU has not addressed this particular issue.

It'd be nice if someone could just say " Yeah, LU doesn't solve that. If that was a problem for you in o5e you'll have to fix it in LU as well". Or "Manuver classes were balanced around using 1 exersion a fight and anything more is gravy so short rests are nice but not really required." (I doubt this is true but just an example) You seem to be addressing a completely different issue in your responses.

I am hoping to play myself but having the main differences both in major rules and their main implications on play would go a long way toward convincing people I play with to adopt LU in the first place. And, for instance, if I know that this hasn't been solved, I don't have to waste time playing in a way I know I won't like. Hence I think the value of this thread for many of us.

 

[tetrasodium]

I've read the through the rules, but because there are so many tweaks, some very subtle, and no summary of differences it's kind of hard to easily digest the implications. Sort of the point of the OP!

But in this case, I was more hoping for people that understand this issue in O5e and were also playtesters or people that have gotten a chance to play LU extensively since release (exist?) to comment on how this balance feels in games that have 1-2 combats a day vs. say 6-8 and various short rests.

I don't think this can easily be inferred by just reading the rules because it kinda depends on the expectations of how many short rests between encounters are expected when designing the power level of the manuvers for instance. I'm not knocking LU as a whole as it has a lot going for it, but my hypothesis is that LU has not addressed this particular issue.

It'd be nice if someone could just say " Yeah, LU doesn't solve that. If that was a problem for you in o5e you'll have to fix it in LU as well". Or "Manuver classes were balanced around using 1 exersion a fight and anything more is gravy so short rests are nice but not really required." (I doubt this is true but just an example) You seem to be addressing a completely different issue in your responses.

I am hoping to play myself but having the main differences both in major rules and their main implications on play would go a long way toward convincing people I play with to adopt LU in the first place. And, for instance, if I know that this hasn't been solved, I don't have to waste time playing in a way I know I won't like. Hence I think the value of this thread for many of us.

You are looking for a solution to an o5e issue I have not noticed in 5ish a5e sessions
Edit': I'm not sure I will because more thought was given to spell design and with encounter day yardsticks that are actually achieved in normal play I can push the party in ways that makes going Nova a bad idea due to needing that power to be better spread out

 

[WanderingMystic]

Combats per short rest

Adept: 2 combats (you use your exertion for your maneuvers and your martial arts extra attacks so you burn through more

Bard: 2 combats (you burn through your inspiration due to battle hymns)

Barbarian: 3 combats ( your rage is per day and your maneuvers feel like icing)

Cleric: 3 (only fuels your channel divinity which is situational imo unless you have added the ability to regain spell slots from tashas)

Druid: 6 encounters per day short rest not needed.

Fighter: 2-3 encounters (not as necessary as the adept but nice.)

Marshall (haven't played but seems like 2 maybe 3 )

Warlocks: 3-4 encounters ( the change to spell points makes it easier to go more combats)

Wizard: 3-4 encounters (used for your signature spells and to regain some spell slots)

Over all most martial classes feel like they need a short rest every 2-3 encounters while your casters really only need 1 short rest per day.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

Over all most martial classes feel like they need a short rest every 2-3 encounters while your casters really only need 1 short rest per day.

So this is similar to O5e BM and others. So I'd say the issue is still there to some extent.

Some mitigating factors for A5e mentioned in this thread though include:

• better encounter building so you can really challenge a party with lower expected encounters per day, say 2 or 3 encounters per day where a lack of any short rests may not be as big a deal
• more martial class abilities are not at will, so they can sort of nova on 1 encounter a day situations (although not as well as casters) by spending all their short rest abilities at once. And arguably can take more risks in using all their exersion since they can get it back on a short rest if it looked like a 1 encounter day but turned out later to be a 2-3 encounter day.
• in the situation where there are 4 or 5 or 8 encounters, more classes have incentive to short rest so perhaps if there is a least a party majority that wants to short rest this will ensure that there is at least 1 short rest in there even if it means making narrative sacrifices

 

[WanderingMystic]

Since really only the Sorcerer and the Druid have no short rest mechanic I wish that they didn't change the wildshap from twice per short rest to proficiency modifier times per long rest and I would have loved it if sorceress got proficiency modifier sorcery points per short rest instead of lvl per long rest. Those two changes would have made it so every class wanted to take at least 1 short rest.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Something that might have a bit of impact on the need for rests is the social and exploration features given to non-casters in A5e. This allows them to continue to contribute more significantly out of combat, so even on a day that's mostly exploration and social stuff without actual combat/danger/action (with maybe 1 combat), they still get to make significant contributions like casters can with utility spells.

 

[lichmaster]

Since really only the Sorcerer and the Druid have no short rest mechanic I wish that they didn't change the wildshap from twice per short rest to proficiency modifier times per long rest and I would have loved it if sorceress got proficiency modifier sorcery points per short rest instead of lvl per long rest. Those two changes would have made it so every class wanted to take at least 1 short rest.

Well the Sorcerer can take Deep font and recover some spell points on a short rest, but overall I agree with you about the fact that all classes should have reasons to take a short rest to recharge some of their powers and not just HP. I'm very fond of unified mechanics wherever possible, so something like spending Hit Dice to recover some kind of resource (spell slots, spell points, exertion or whatever) does really make sense to me, and should be an option for every class.
I'd go even further, and say that a single table with a cost of X Hit Dice to recover Y amount for ability Z for each would be awesome.

 

[rules.mechanic]

I'm very fond of unified mechanics wherever possible, so something like spending Hit Dice to recover some kind of resource (spell slots, spell points, exertion or whatever) does really make sense to me, and should be an option for every class.
I'd go even further, and say that a single table with a cost of X Hit Dice to recover Y amount for ability Z for each would be awesome.

I'm a big fan of that too. We call it Heroic Effort (I didn't realise that was something else in 4e) but it's a temporary benefit to avoid a few exploits we ran into:

"You may spend one Hit Die (or level of exhaustion [will need to update to fatigue/strife!] if no Hit Dice left) to:

• Add to any roll: ability checks (including initiative), saves (including death saving throws), attack rolls, damage rolls.
• Add to the DC for a spell you are casting.
• Add to your AC until the start of your next turn.
• Gain temporary points for a duration of 1 minute (hit points, sorcery points, ki points, etc).
• Recover a temporary spell slot up to your proficiency bonus (or spell points if using the variant from the DMG [or for warlocks in A5E]) for a duration of 1 minute.
• Or in place of spending a special die (e.g. superiority die, Bardic Inspiration die, Psionic Energy die, defense die).

You must then finish a short or long rest before you can do this again."

 

[Xaielao]

Flanking is an expertise die rather than advantage & with press the attack /fallback & maneuvers combat is no longer close to rockemsockemrobots.

So true, and lmao.

The encounters per long rest /adventuring day is a much more reasonable number that you the gm can once again push without resorting to loldeadly encounters all the time.

Did we finally get an answer to this one? I don't remember reading anything about encounters per adventuring day in the books. Refresh my memory if you would.