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Summer Flicks!

barsoomcore said:
I don't believe most people are stupid and I don't believe that people go see crap because they don't know any better. Movies become popular for good reasons. That may not have anything to do with their quality, but they're still reasons.

hope you didn't think my previous post was directed at you barsoomcore.

i was just irritated from the general attitude of the "why i hate stupid people" thread in the other forum. i really hate "intellegence snobs" if that makes any sense.

anyways, i totally agree that people are very much entitled to your opinion. you have some very good ones and good points to support them.

this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but i just dislike it when people try to pass off their opinion as fact.
 
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barsoomcore said:
Good grief, no. Or, yes. It depends.

I am certainly more than capable of enjoying movies that lack certain components. Acting. Quality photography. Common sense.

A film doesn't have to have any particular qualities to meet my standards other than one -- it must not be dull. Dull films I cannot stand, and I don't care how pretty they are or who's in them or anything -- I hate dull movies.

But my friends are regularly poking fun at me for my low-brow tastes. And I don't hang out with especially high-brow types. I just like The Scorpion King.

I said pretty much all I needed to say in the above post (and then some, said the audience) -- I just wanted to say very particularly that I am not (in my estimation) a film snob, not in the slightest cynical about films, and I enjoy most films I see.

I do think Bryan Singer sucks. I also think Ang Lee doesn't know the first thing about fight scenes. I don't think that makes me a snob.

I don't think people who have different opinions than I do are dummies. Which I think is kind of the definition of a snob.
Hey, fair enough. I was just curious. :)

I totally respect your opinions on said movies, tastes and the like. I do have one question tho: Why didn't you like The Usual Suspects? You would be the first person I have even spoken to that didn't like that flick.

I do have to say that you have some curious tastes in films. :)

And thank you for not getting offended at the snob thing, I just couldn't think of another way to put it at the time.
 

John Crichton said:
I totally respect your opinions on said movies, tastes and the like. I do have one question tho: Why didn't you like The Usual Suspects? You would be the first person I have even spoken to that didn't like that flick.

To back up barsoomcore on this, I thought it was highly overrated as well. Not nearly as smart a film as it thinks it is.

I also think that Singer is an adequate but overrated director. However, he does have one virtue that helped X-Men (and, hopefully, X2) not suck - he takes the subject matter seriously, not as a joke (like, say, that hack Joel Schumacher.)
 

Assenpfeffer said:
To back up barsoomcore on this, I thought it was highly overrated as well. Not nearly as smart a film as it thinks it is.

I also think that Singer is an adequate but overrated director. However, he does have one virtue that helped X-Men (and, hopefully, X2) not suck - he takes the subject matter seriously, not as a joke (like, say, that hack Joel Schumacher.)

But is that a function of the Usual Suspects, or the hype that surrounded it? Expectations going in certainly is a part of the film experience. I would hazard that barsoomcore would have thought far less of the Scorpion King, if he had expected a different kind of film than what was delivered. If everyone you know has gone to see a film and told you it's brilliant, amazing, stunning!, and when you get there, it's not quite as thrilling to you, expectations color your feelings about it. The friend who saw it and enjoyed, without anticipation, will have a radically different view compared to the anticipation you had. The film may be fine, just not the brilliant movie you were waiting for; your friend was expecting an OK movie, and was suprised, and perhaps jumped up his expectations.

Personally, I think Singer has accomplished what few directors have been able to do...which is to show people what I find compelling in the X-men, and to deliver to a larger audience. Schumacher's sin wasn't just his poor treatment of the material...it was his fundemental lack of understanding of the characters and the material. The parts of X-men that stood out for me weren't the fight scenes, but instead were the character moments. Hugh Jackman's scenes with Anna Panquin, for example: "Does it hurt when they (his claws)...?" "Every time."

I think reviewing a film like CTHD without taking into account the differences in both US and Chinese filmmaking, as well as the story-telling styles in both cultures, kind of misses the point.

Originally posted by barsoomcoreI do think that many people are unused to hard conversation, to defending their opinions and assessing new ideas with rigour. I like doing that and so I know that sometimes it seems like I really jump on peoples' heads. I'm just enthusiastic and I've gotten better at keeping things civil. I hope.
People aren't necessarily unused to it, they just may not enjoy it the way you obviously do. Not everyone enjoys someone getting up in their face. One man's "assessing new ideas with rigour" is another man's "being a rude jerk". I'm not saying you were doing that, but what you describe IME can be perceived totally differently than intended.
 

WizarDru said:


But is that a function of the Usual Suspects, or the hype that surrounded it? Expectations going in certainly is a part of the film experience. I would hazard that barsoomcore would have thought far less of the Scorpion King, if he had expected a different kind of film than what was delivered. If everyone you know has gone to see a film and told you it's brilliant, amazing, stunning!, and when you get there, it's not quite as thrilling to you, expectations color your feelings about it. The friend who saw it and enjoyed, without anticipation, will have a radically different view compared to the anticipation you had. The film may be fine, just not the brilliant movie you were waiting for; your friend was expecting an OK movie, and was suprised, and perhaps jumped up his expectations.

Personally, I think Singer has accomplished what few directors have been able to do...which is to show people what I find compelling in the X-men, and to deliver to a larger audience. Schumacher's sin wasn't just his poor treatment of the material...it was his fundemental lack of understanding of the characters and the material. The parts of X-men that stood out for me weren't the fight scenes, but instead were the character moments. Hugh Jackman's scenes with Anna Panquin, for example: "Does it hurt when they (his claws)...?" "Every time."

I think reviewing a film like CTHD without taking into account the differences in both US and Chinese filmmaking, as well as the story-telling styles in both cultures, kind of misses the point.

Excellent points.

I'll also add that I used to attend a lot of movie screenings and in two cases of movies where people declared that the movies were ridicoulously overhyped (THE MATRIX and THE USUAL SUSPECTS) the preview audiences REALLY enjoyed these movies.

The previews/ trailers for The MAtrix showed a lot of cool visuals but told you almost NOTHING about the story. So I remember being in that screening audience when the big reveal happens about midway through. There definitely a few muffled "Oh :):):):)'s" in that audience. That and people really enjoyed the action. I remember getting how and my then finace (now wife) asking me "how was it" and I responded by calling most of my friends and telling them that it was pretty damn entertaining.

Likewise with the Usual Suspects. The screening auidence that I saw this with were for the most part caught off gaurd with the ending of that movie. I could tell because, again thier surprise was audiable. "Oh, :):):):)", "No way" " Damn, didint see that coming" etc, etc.

So yeah I think alot of the backlash has to do with the hype more than the actual film itself. And for the record, I think that both Singer and Ang Lee are excellent directors, Singer for his ability to focus on the character bits and Lee for pretty much the same thing and his ability to handle a wide range of topics in his films.
 

Phew!

*wipes sweat off forehead as he realises he hasn't offended a whole bunch of people he likes*

Thanks, folks -- everyone's been very kind and honest and I really appreciate that.

dreaded_beast -- yeah, I did think it was directed at me and thought, "Fair enough." Thanks for clarifying that, though.

John Crichton -- The Usual Suspects is actually my favourite Singer film. I have a problem with "trick" films (the Sixth Sense is another) where the director hides a crucial fact from you throughout the film and reveals it at the end, so that bugs me about it, but the performances are so great I forgive it. And I agree that the best parts of X-Men were the quiet character moments -- Hugh and Anna being standouts in this regard.

WizarDru -- Of course one always has to watch for expectations. I try to have as few as possible but I guess you can't have zero. What you can do, however, is consider each film and analyse why you liked it or didn't, and see if it's just a case of mismatched expectations or if there's actual problems with the film that interfere with your enjoyment of it.

And good point on the whole debating thing. There are times when I don't feel much like engaging in such things, myself.

As a note, I think that saying everybody hates such and such a film just because of some sort of backlash is just as "snobbish" as saying everybody likes such and such a film just because they're stupid and suckered by marketing hoo-hah. There are reasons for people's likes and dislikes.

Singer -- I don't think he's made one film that I would categorically consider great. Frankly, I can think of only one film he's made (Suspects) that's at all worth watching, and even that one isn't worth watching twice. So I don't consider him very good.

Lee -- has undeniably made some great films. Eat, Drink, Man, Woman and Sense and Sensibility are both great great films that I love. I just don't think he gets action scenes, and wish that he would make better films.
 


For my picks:

Bruce Almighty, because Jim Carrey has always made me laugh ever since his days in In Living Color.

X-Men 2 - as if you had to ask.

Hulk - although it may wait for video.

Matrix Reloaded - another definite must-see-in-theater.

And that's about it. Assuming the new Harry Potter movie comes out, I'll probably catch it on video same as the first two.

Return of the King - another "you had to ask."

Other than those, I don't know of any else I am eager for.
 

X2 mostly for Kelly Hu :)

Pirates of the Caribbean - While not high on my list, Johnny Depp has never disappointed me in a movie, so I will check it out.

Matrix and T3, sorry but just don't interest me. Oh, I hay see them but someone is going to have to twist my arm.
 

Wait a minute, where's my brain?

Charlie's Angels 2: Full Throttle!!!

Now there's just what I'm wanting in a big dumb action film. Big, dumb and lots of action. If it's half as good as the first it'll be twice as good as anything else I see coming up. Woo hoo!

"Wait! I got an idea!"

Hee hee.

For those who haven't yet stopped reading my interminable posts on pointy-headed little details, here's a small but oh-so-important-to-me example of why Charlie's Angels was a better action film than The Matrix:

Rent both films, if you don't own either. Watch the first fight scene in the Matrix, the big wrap-around freeze frame of Trinity doing her high-flying kick. Note the cut -- just before the impact. For me, that moment was the start of my dislike for the film. That cut.

Yeah, okay, it matters to me. My doctors says my prognosis is hopeful, though.

Now compare that scene with the alley fight in CA. Watch Cameron Diaz' high-flying kick. Note the cut -- just AFTER the impact.

To me, the difference is like night and day and demonstrates clearly how much more accomplished a director McG is. How much better he understands what he's doing.

(Hey, EN, thanks. Because obviously I need a lot of encouragement to talk incessantly about myself. Ask anyone. ;) )
 

Into the Woods

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