Summon Monster

[sithramir]

A lot of summon monster spells are also useful for the abilities the summoned creature has. For instance, summoning a creature with teleport so he can teleport you somewhere (I recall seeing this being removed or something ?)

But things like a unicorn with healing abilities can be summoned to heal friends even if its minor spells. (This is summon nature's ally but i'm in a lab and can't think of a normal summon monster).


If you look at creatures from summon monster 5 and up it starts to have some ones with useful abilities like a monster that can neutralize poison which TRUST me when you find you need it you'll be keeping an extra summon spell handy at all times..

Also, although the summoned creatures aren't high CR they have a lot of special qualities like a dretch with elemental resistances and DR. Things with SR can be good to be summoned against casters to keep them busy, or even to have them fight the tanks for you since the spellcasters can't blast them away.

 

[jgsugden]

There is a trade off in spells: Raw power versus versatility. If a spell is very versatile, it is usually lower in pure power than other spells of the same spell level. If the spell has a lot of punch, it is usually restricted to only specific uses.

Summon spells are the kings of versatility. They can be used to deal damage, to transport the party, to absorb damage, to provide healing, etc ... There are no spells out there that are as versatile. As a result, the pure power of these spells is very low. A fireball will do a heck of a lot more damage than a SM III monster. A fly spell will provide better transportation than a SM III monster.

3.5 tried to limit all the versatile spells. Eyebite was restructured. Emotion and Symbol were broken up into various spells. The only true multitasker remaining is the summon monster series. I have a feeling that they'll be completely reworked in 4.0 to remove the versatility. Instead of SM I, there will be Summon Celestial Hound. Instead of SM III, you'll have Summon Elemental (Lesser).

Until then, try to figure out how to maximize the versatility. That is where these spells are really useful.

 

[melkoriii]

Did they remove the Formian Worker from the SM list?

It was under SM II right?

Formian Worker's were really useful.

THey could Cure Serious (8 workers) or Make Whole as a full round action.

 

[Gez]

I said it before, I'll say it again, here's the code to the Summon Monster (and Summon Nature's Ally) lists:
Level 1: CR 1/2
Level 2: CR 1
Level 3: CR 2
Level 4: CR 3
Level 5: CR 4-5
Level 6: CR 6-7
Level 7: CR 8-9
Level 8: CR 10-11
Level 9: CR 12-13

If the creature has poison (or another form of damage that isn't hit point damage), boost its SM/SNA level one rank.
If the creature can cast spells, boost its SM/SNA level to 1 above the highest-level spell it can cast.
Note that in 3.0, all sharks were put at a SM/SNA level too high, because the list was made before the MM was finalized; and sharks have been toned down after the publication of the PH.

 

[jgsugden]

The SNA/SM lists are flawed if you put balance first. They should be based upon the ECL of the creature, not the CR. ECL evaluates the value of the creature as a member of the party. CR measures the difficulty (for the party) of defeating the creature in combat.

Further, campaign specific issues often lead to certain creatures being disproprotionately more useful in a given campaign. House rules and setting can have a huge effect on the utility of a given monstrous ally.

In the end, you're better off making up your own campaign specific lists. Use the PHB lists as a guideline, but don't trust them. Creating a single list that works in all campaigns is like coming up with a pick-up line that works on every girl. No matter how nice you make it, it will only work some of the time.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I said it before, I'll say it again, here's the code to the Summon Monster (and Summon Nature's Ally) lists:
...
...
If the creature has poison (or another form of damage that isn't hit point damage), boost its SM/SNA level one rank.
If the creature can cast spells, boost its SM/SNA level to 1 above the highest-level spell it can cast.
Note that in 3.0, all sharks were put at a SM/SNA level too high, because the list was made before the MM was finalized; and sharks have been toned down after the publication of the PH.

Lantern Archon
SM IV
Greater teleport (7th) at will.

Hmm.

 

[Gez]

Dude, in case it wasn't obvious, I meant "spells the spellcaster can benefit from". Archons (and most other outsiders who gets a teleport spell-like ability) can only teleport themselves.

So, you can't use a SM4 to summon an Archon and tell him "hello cab, teleport me to the princess's bathroom".

On the other hand, if the archon had a teleport other ability, you may be sure it would be bumped above level 5.

Likewise, a creature that would get the ability to cast heal on itself only, blah. No need to take that into account for a summon spell. But a creature able to cast heal normally, including on others, will be summoned sometimes just to cast this spell, and so "for balance" needs to have its summon level higher than the level of heal.

That's why 3.0 PH has janni at a higher summon level (8) than djinni (7). Because of the Janni's ethereal jaunt, which may be useful for the caster and his party ("go to the other side of that door and open it").

 

[Zhure]

The Lantern Archon's Teleport works on itself and up to 50 pounds. Some of the smaller races can get by with it. Any high level caster with a Reduce can get by with it.

Greg

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Lantern Archon's Teleport works on itself and up to 50 pounds. Some of the smaller races can get by with it. Any high level caster with a Reduce can get by with it.

You have to stop treating smaller creatures as objects, man. It's just not cool.

-Hyp.

 

[jester47]

I have decided that I am going to go with individual summon spells for my campaign. Summon Demon, Summon Elemental, etc. I think this fits better (can anyone explain to me in game terms how Cadderly is able to summon demons?!) However, this sort of messes with SNA as SNA is a divine spell that can be spontaneously cast. So when a druid casts SNA, which creature does he summon? The only thing I can think of around this is to use the guidelines for CR that Gez posted and allow druids to choose the monster summoned spontaneously (but only when casting the spell spontaneously).

Gez, thanks for posting the guidelines. Where did you get that info? Dragon 302 has the chart, but the source of the adjustments (which seem commonsensical upon reflection) are a mystery to me. That does not mean they will not be used.

For Wizards (and sorcerers) Individual summoning spells make more sense to me as you never see a summoner casting a spell that gives options. Its always a different spell for a different creature. I like that. I also like using the summon individual monsters rule. (you know, when you summon a wolf, its always the same wolf)

I also plan to expand the standard summoning spell to indicate that the summoned creature is never in any danger of dying. When it is threatened with death the magic that summoned it (still active, because if it was not dispel magic would not work) sends it back to where it came from.

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Aaron.