Summon Monster

[Li Shenron]

I have decided that I am going to go with individual summon spells for my campaign. Summon Demon, Summon Elemental, etc.

...

For Wizards (and sorcerers) Individual summoning spells make more sense to me as you never see a summoner casting a spell that gives options. Its always a different spell for a different creature. I like that. I also like using the summon individual monsters rule. (you know, when you summon a wolf, its always the same wolf)

If you go this way I think that somewhere there are rule to have Summon Monster spells be of variable level, so that a Wiz/Sor could just learn "Summon Demon" and depending on the demon he chooses to summon the spell requires a lower or higher spell slot. This should lessen the cost to learn many spells especially for the Sorcerer, and especially compared to the Clerics who know all spells automatically.

I thought it could be in some of the Books of Eldritch Might but I really don't know.

 

[Storm Raven]

Lantern Archon
SM IV
Greater teleport (7th) at will.

Use of this ability is extremely limited. It can only transport itself and 50 pounds of gear.

 

[Archade]

One quick note -- keep in mind you can only use the creatures special abilities in versatile ways if you can communicate with it. Otherwise, it attacks your opponents without direction, to the best of its ability.

We have in our campaign a cleric of Kossuth, who took Ingan as a language. Hence, any elementals he summons he can direct specifically (ie control with no DM futzing). The sorcerer in the party cannot.

Blair / Archade

 

[Shard O'Glase]

While we're on the subject, has anyone found the spells to be very weak? They appear that way on the surface at least.

I mean, Summon Monster IX summons mostly CR 9 creatures. Against the EL 18+ encounters one would expect to face when one can cast SMIX a CR 9 creature is surely not very effective?

pathetically weak. In 3.0 they were a tad weak and there versatillity made them a good spell, in 3.5 there pathetically weak and there versatility makes them a pathetically weak spell. If the casting time was 1 standard action instead of 1 round then they'd just be slightly weak, as is though there a waste of space.

 

[jester47]

If you go this way I think that somewhere there are rule to have Summon Monster spells be of variable level, so that a Wiz/Sor could just learn "Summon Demon" and depending on the demon he chooses to summon the spell requires a lower or higher spell slot. This should lessen the cost to learn many spells especially for the Sorcerer, and especially compared to the Clerics who know all spells automatically.

I thought it could be in some of the Books of Eldritch Might but I really don't know.

Actually, the way I am doing it is each summon spell as cast by a wizard or sorcerer summons a specific being. So summon Orc would summon Sharrg the Orc, Summon Devil (barbed devil) would summon a barbed devil named Yxichiscul. True Dragons, constructs, and undead cannot be summoned. (undead cause it would mess up create undead spells and they are not living and immune to compulsion, constructs because they are objects created by another spell, and True Dragons cause well... they be dragons! and the CRs are way low for dragons...)

Clerics get to choose what they summon when they prepare the spell, but are only limited to alignments based on thier god. They don't necessarily summon the same creature everytime they cast a certain summon spell. For them its optional. "I'm gonna call that demon back and give him a piece of my mind..."

Druids are the summoning baddasses. They can spontaneously summon as detailed in the 3.5 rules, no change. However since I don't want to use a chart, they can only summon animals, fey, elementals, Magical beasts, and vermin of the right CR for the spell. (based on what Gez gave me) They get to choose what they are summoning when they cast the spell. I figure players ussually have favorites anyway. Druids can choose to summon the same creature each time they summon a certain type of creature (like if they are especially fond of a pack of wolves.)

Aaron.

 

[jgsugden]

pathetically weak. In 3.0 they were a tad weak and there versatillity made them a good spell, in 3.5 there pathetically weak and there versatility makes them a pathetically weak spell. If the casting time was 1 standard action instead of 1 round then they'd just be slightly weak, as is though there a waste of space.

FYI: This opinion, though common, has not held by all players. Many of us have found these spells to be very valuable.

I think one problem is that people only focus in on one aspect of what they are gaining from a summoned monster. They ignore the rest of the details.

For instance, a SM V can be used to call a bearded devil (Barbazu). It will be around for at least 9 rounds. What happens when it is summoned for combat usage?

First: It can deal damage. A few strikes from a barbazu can result in massive amounts of damage due to infernal wounds.

Second: It can absorb damage. Every attack aimed at the barbazu is an attack that doesn't deal damage to a PC. They may only have 45 hit points, but they are pretty resilient to magical damage attacks (SR, immunity to fire, resistance to acid and cold, decent saves), damage resistance and the ability to rage itself to gain 12 more hit points. That is a lot of damage that can be absorbed.

Third: It can provide tactical advantages not available to standard PCs. For instance, it can do something suicidal. If the BBEG has a powerful one shot weapon, the barbazu can walk right up to the BBEG and take the hit.

Other monsters can also provide access to spell-like abilities that the PC can not usually create. A high level sorcerer that has a high level summon spell has access to hundreds of spells that may not have been on his spell list.

In the end, the spell is very versatile in terms of different abilities that can be gained and in terms of different uses for the spell that can be achieved through one casting. It is offensive and defensive at the same time.

In my experience, the only time the spell is useless is at low levels when the duration is so short that the spell duration ends before the creature dies from combat damage. Even then, it is often useful outside of combat.

 

[nimisgod]

In my experience, the only time the spell is useless is at low levels when the duration is so short that the spell duration ends before the creature dies from combat damage. Even then, it is often useful outside of combat.

Summon Monster I=Trap springer monsters

 

[allenw]

Use of this ability is extremely limited. It can only transport itself and 50 pounds of gear.

And in 3.5, it can't even do that, when Summoned. Y'all missed a key sentence in the new Summon Monster I:
"A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities" (emphasis added).

 

[Shard O'Glase]

FYI: This opinion, though common, has not held by all players. Many of us have found these spells to be very valuable.


In my experience, the only time the spell is useless is at low levels when the duration is so short that the spell duration ends before the creature dies from combat damage. Even then, it is often useful outside of combat.

In my experience it is even more useless at high levels since fights are over so quickly. With a one round casting time it a bonified mirracle for this spell to get off at higher levels in my epxerience and when it miraculously does get off the fights over before it participates in any real fashion.

Any spell with a csting time of more than 1 standard action should be signifigantly more powerful than the other spells of its level. If not the spell is weak, and SM isnb't any where near being signifigantly more powerful than the other spells of its level.

And now with the reduced list of mosnters there really isn't nealry as much point for summoning these things for out of combat purposes. Sure they still exist, like some tunneling or setting traps off. I think before they were too good at high levels since you could summon a clestial that could cast spells as a 14th levle cleric could heal x number of times a day and could still fight decently. But now there just borderline useless.

 

[jester47]

But now there just borderline useless.

Hence my revisions!