Summoning Monsters

[Kaledor]

I'm running a 5th level Mage and do not have any summon monster spells. I've always been of the oppinion that a good single shot offensive spell (magic missile) was better... but I'm slowly chaning my mind. So, I'm considering investing in some Summoning spells.

What are the advantages to the spell in general?

Anybody have any really cool uses?

My thought:
I'd pick up SM II b/c it allows you to summon multiple 1st level creatures and it is cheaper than getting SMIII.
Then I could use them for Flanking Bonuses to my frontline fighters and rogue when she's in melee combat.


Any thoughts?

 

[Jack Simth]

In general? Another friendly combatant that can appear anywhere within 25 feet + 5 ft/ 2 caster levels (at 5th, that's 35 feet) that only uses up a spell slot and a full round on the part of the caster. Very useful for giving your Rogue flanking bonuses (All melee attacks become sneak attacks!), as well as the extra to-hit (or is it an AC penalty on the target? I always forget ... not that it really makes a difference).

In specific? A Druid of mine has had fun with Summon Nature's Ally II (Dire Badger) for getting through annoying obsticles - they have a dig speed (only 10 feet, but nothing specifically prevents them from Running for 4 times that in a round, if I recall correctly, for 40 feet of digging per caster level) that is described as being able to penetrate anything short of "solid rock"; you can duplicate the effect with a Celestial Dire Badger via Summon Monster III.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

In general, I would say that Summon Monster spells are some of the most useful and multi-purpose around. However, having said that, at lower levels, they do not last long enough to be worth considering. At 5th level, you're most probably ready to get some level of value out of them though.

Providing flanking for your fighters and sucking up attacks of opportunity are useful jobs for the creatures you summon. I have to be honest though and say that from the first couple of lists, there are not that many creatures to get excited over. Lantern Archons and Howlers as well as some of the vermin can have interesting uses. Realisitically though, it is not until you hit the 5th level list that you get some interesting creatures: giant stag beetles and griffons, achaierai (a personal favourite) and dire apes and boars are cool as are shadow mastiffs.

At higher levels - ability to cast Summon Monster VII, you start to get a nice array of creatures with a wide range of uses. In terms of sheer size and power, you cannot go past the multiple Giant Crocodiles (Huge creatures with lots of hit points and very good grapples) at SM-V and the Huge Fire Elemental (Lots of attacks of opportunity) and Bone Devils at SM-VII. Having these guys on the battlefield and being able to communicate with them is great for organising the battlefield to your liking.

If you combine this with augment summoning and the alienist prestige class from the Complete Arcane - the psuedonatural template - you have some very interesting creatures with which to summon to battle. If you see the Story Hour in my signature regarding Lucifus Cray - the Alienist that I am currently playing - you might get a few ideas for some really whacky things you can do in terms of summoning creatures.

If you want to get the most out of the summoning spells, you should most likely wait until you hit SM IV or V. Having said that, I'm sure you can get some good use out of the lower level ones too if you use them intelligently.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you combine this with augment summoning and the alienist prestige class from the Complete Arcane - the psuedonatural template - you have some very interesting creatures with which to summon to battle.

Although Alienist is also fairly limiting - I'd guess about half the Summons I use are elementals, and Alienists lose those.

An Arcane Hierophant Alienist might be interesting - he can still get Elementals via SNA...

-Hyp.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Although Alienist is also fairly limiting - I'd guess about half the Summons I use are elementals, and Alienists lose those.

An Arcane Hierophant Alienist might be interesting - he can still get Elementals via SNA...

-Hyp.

This is true in regards to the alienist.

They stripped all the intesting and unusual creatures from the lists - you can only summon celestial or fiendish creatures and replace this template with the psuedonatural one. By enforcing augment summoning (and thus spell focus (conjuration)), Complete Arcane made the alienist class a little more vanilla. Obviously, in concert with the DM, house ruling feats to achieve the 3.0 flavour are possible for those who did not appreciate the changes.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[dcollins]

I'm running a 5th level Mage and do not have any summon monster spells. I've always been of the oppinion that a good single shot offensive spell (magic missile) was better... but I'm slowly chaning my mind. So, I'm considering investing in some Summoning spells.

What you're certainly running into (mentioned above) is that summoning gets doubly good as levels go up because (1) monsters get tougher, and (2) the duration they last goes up.

In particular, what's happened for you is you just now hit the level where your duration is equal to the length of most D&D fights (generally calculated as 4-5 rounds on average). So now your monsters can stick around for a whole fight (on average), and they are at peak usefulness duration-wise.

 

[Kaledor]

Thanks for all the info guys!

It sounds like if I can pick up the spell now is not a bad time...
but that I should definitely be looking at it in the next few levels as my CL increases.

I had already been thinking of the flanking bonus use.
I hadn't considered the use of the badger (being able to tunnel) **VERY** nice trick!

 

[Paragon Kobold]

My experience is that Summon Monster is incredibly useful for
controlling the battlefield. The ability to place a critter anywhere
whitin 35 or so feet is not only useful for flanking, but can also be
used to disrupt enemy charges, harass spellcasters and archers,
cover retreats, or prevent an opponent from fleeing. The fact that one
can choose between one big guy or 2-5 small ones, and can choose flyers,
swimmers, firestarters, or just big bruisers as one casts the spell,
makes it one of the most tactically flexible of all combat spells.

 

[Klaus]

Summoned Monsters can:

- Serve as an additional target for your foes, thereby saving the frontline fighters some hit points;
- Use the Aid Another option to give said fighters +2 to hit or AC (more, if you summon many weaker creatures);
- Serve as mounts if they're large enough (druids are better in this regard);
- Do general tasks (once a player summoned tritons to carry the party across a lake).

I strongly suggest you taking a rank in Speak Language and choosing Celestial (or Abyssal or Infernal) so you can communicate with your summoned critters.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I hadn't considered the use of the badger (being able to tunnel) **VERY** nice trick!

Well, it doesn't do you any good because you won't likely be able to communicate with the badger to tell it to dig anywhere (you need speak with animals or learn celestial and convince your DM that celestial badgers understand celestial). More importantly, however, realize that the badger does not leave behind a tunnel or anything, so the fact that he can dig may not have the uses you think it does.

In specific? A Druid of mine has had fun with Summon Nature's Ally II (Dire Badger) for getting through annoying obsticles - they have a dig speed (only 10 feet, but nothing specifically prevents them from Running for 4 times that in a round, if I recall correctly, for 40 feet of digging per caster level) that is described as being able to penetrate anything short of "solid rock"; you can duplicate the effect with a Celestial Dire Badger via Summon Monster III.

You recall incorrectly. A creature cannot charge or run while burrowing.

Back on topic, IME summon monster spells are typically very poor. Although you asked for advantages, it's useful to consider the disadvantages.

1. The full round casting time is a real hassle. There's a feat to circumvent this, though, called rapid summoning or some such.

2. The monsters in the spell lists do not progress as fast as the heroes do, so you'll find that by 9th level or so, even your best summoning spells are not that great.

3. A simple 1st-level spell (or spell-like ability, or even Su ability) almost totally negates the summoned monster.

That said, it can be useful, especially at higher levels when the creatures get more abilities and things like protection from alignment don't matter as much. It can also be a lot of fun to buff up your monsters after you summon them. One trick we came up with was a high-level cleric to cast summon monster VII to bring in a huge earth elemental and then buff it with bear's endurance, bull's strength, and spell resistance. The SR allowed it to penetrate protection from evil or magic circle against evil.