Summoning Monsters

[Infiniti2000]

Actually, the Dire Badge does leave a tunnel - it's in the description...

Cool! That's a huge difference between a badger and a dire badger! Obviously, I only looked up badger and didn't note what you wrote.

Ah well, happens.

Case in point.

 

[Nail]

...So, I decided to make use of the ape's huge grapple benefits ....

Exactly.

Grappling, through the Impr. Grab ability, is a huge benefit of the SM spells.

I'm currently playing a cleric specializing in summoning celestial creatures. I've been at it since 5th level (no need to bother summoning before that -- there are better things to do), and my PC is currently Clr 19. Summoning has been a very effective tactic, and I've had a lot of fun with it. (Just a note:

Spoiler

Psions are *way* better at this than "regular" magic-users are. Check out Astral Construct.

)

But it takes significant preparation and careful tactics. Each creature on that list has it's pros and cons, and knowing which monster is the right one for the job is crucial. I've prepared a data file and summary lists for each spell (II - IX) for my PC, just so I have the info I need when I need to make a snap decision.

For example: Our party was storming the castle of a tribe of orcs. We needed mobility from high castle wall to high castle wall, while staying clear of the center courtyard and it's Winter Wolf. My Clr5 started summoning celestial hippogriffs. Charge!

Another example: Our party was attacked by an invisible(greater) rogue. My Clr 9 summoned a monstrous scorpion: Tremorsense to pinpoint the rogue's location, and 2 pincer/Imp. Grab attempts to grapple him. Fun and effective!

Another example: Our (now higher level) party is ambushed by a squad of classed gnolls. My Clr 11 summoned a Large air elemental in whirlwind form. One vaccum sweep later, the once spread out gnolls that had surrounded us were gathered up and all held in front of the fighters is a nice neat package. Cuisinart(tm) time!

Etc.

It's a fun spell. Although: you have to specialize to be truely effective.

 

[Kaledor]

It's a fun spell. Although: you have to specialize to be truely effective.

How so?
Just pick up the augement summoning feat (or some such)?

Or are there other things that make you truly "specialized"
It's too late for me to become a specialist Conjurer... so are there other things I can do to make my summons better?

BTW. Thanks all for the help.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Augment summoning requires spell focus (conjuration) - an arguably weak feat because few conjuration spells allow saving throws. These two feats (not spells) alone IMO could be considered "specialized."

 

[Herremann the Wise]

How so?
Just pick up the augement summoning feat (or some such)?

Or are there other things that make you truly "specialized"
It's too late for me to become a specialist Conjurer... so are there other things I can do to make my summons better?

BTW. Thanks all for the help.

As Infiniti2000 says, you need spell focus (conjuration) to get augment summoning. Since most conjuration's don't offer a save, augment summoning ends up being pretty expensive feat-wise.

The alienist prestige class is one way to specialise. The Green Summoning feat in FR (I think that's the name of it) is also good for beefing up summoned creatures. However, our group generally tends not to use FR stuff because it seems overpowered for the price. In short, we don't trust FR material.

However, by specializing, I think a certain component is the dedication to summoning of the actual players.

For example in our groups primary game, I play the conjurer/alienist Lucifus Cray while another character is the sorcerer Nemhan. They both have Summon Monster VII on their lists. However, because it's the primary thing for my guy - I have summon monster cards using the DMGII for all of Lucifus's augmented psuedonatural summonings - I know exactly what each of them can and can't do. As such as a player, I can normally pick creatures to suit the occasion more so than Nemhan's player who likes the simplicity of big powerful elementals.

The fact that Lucifus has all the summoning spells from I to VIII means that there is a greater range of things he regularly summons too - nothing like practice. In essence, really knowing your creatures - you as a player specialising in their knowledge - is worth just as much as any feat boosting their Strength and Constitution.

I think unless you have played a character that specialises in such things, you kind of underestimate not only how good, but how much fun summoning stuff can be.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Aust Diamondew]

My tip: Web+Summon Swarm=death.

I love summoning spells. At low levels though summon monster is really crappy. Around level 5 it starts to pick up.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Green Summoning feat in FR (I think that's the name of it) is also good for beefing up summoned creatures.

"Beefing up"?

Greenbound Summoning was apparently originally submitted by the author as a metamagic feat - so extended casting time for Druids casting spontaneously, and a level increase.

It ended up in the book as a General feat.

A General feat that can be taken by a 1st level druid, allowing him access to Wall of Thorns.

That's completely aside from the +6 natural armor bonus, +4 grapple checks, fast healing, DR, energy resistance, Tremorsense, Entangle at will, and ability bonuses that stack with Augment Summoning that apply to all creatures the druid summons.

If you can find a DM who'll allow it... yeah, Greenbound Summoning will do some 'beefing up' for you

-Hyp.

 

[azhrei_fje]

I agree that SM requires specific circumstances to be useful. Our group was recently attacked by 6 undead swarms; they do only a couple points of damage, but do 1d2 Con. At 9th level, you'd think we could've taken them out easily, but we weren't arranged very well.

I used a SM4 to get 1d4+1 bombadier (sp?) beetles because they have an acid spray attack that they can use every round. It turned out to be very effective. I got 4 beetles who did 1d4+2 points of acid damage each round in a cone-shape attack. They did more damage than most of the rest of the party's attacks.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

If you can find a DM who'll allow it... yeah, Greenbound Summoning will do some 'beefing up' for you

-Hyp.

Yeah. That's the one.

So Hypersmurf, you think that feat has some balance issues?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Hypersmurf]

So Hypersmurf, you think that feat has some balance issues?

Maybe just a teensy one.

-Hyp.