Summonings

[I'm A Banana]

I'm about to play a character with summon abilities for the first time, but I've got a few Q's about how some stuff with the summoned ally is supposed to work.

I'm looking at Summon Fire Warrior, and see that it has something it can do with an opportunity action. But if I'm reading RAW right, it does not ever get an opportunity action. I do. So if an enemy moves away from it, it does not get an opportunity action. But if an enemy moves away from me, I can spend my opportunity action to give it the attack, yes?

That doesn't seem to be working-as-intended, though...I'd guess the fire warrior would want to hit things that move away from it, instead of hitting things that move away from me. But if I'm the one who has to use "opportunity actions" to power the attacks, I don't get one when an enemy moves away from the summon, only when they'd move away from me.

I'm also curious as to if keywords cascade through the attacks the summon uses. Summon Fire Warrior has the Implement keyword, so if I use the Standard Action attack, do I get the normal attack roll with my magic implement bonus (the same attack roll I'd use for, say, Fireball)? Or does it not get added? Does it have the "Arcane" keyword when it uses its attacks, or not (so, does it use feat bonuses, etc. I might have for Arcane powers, or not)?

And the third concern is pretty basic: these things count for flanking and CA and such, right?

I'm also a little annoyed that the Compendium fails me when trying to reference summoning rules, because it doesn't talk about any of this stuff....defenses, HP, etc....it's not even the entire PHB3 blurb, which I'd imagine it should be....

Anyway, mostly looking to sort out some rules on this bad boy. My githyanki pyromancer mage wants to burninate things, and I should be able to understand what this thing is doing before I slam it down on the table.

 

[Aegeri]

No, if someone adjacent to it provokes an AoO you can use it to make the attack. What the rule means is that if your summon takes an AoO and then (for whatever reason) it provokes from you on the same turn you cannot take an AoO (not that you'd probably want to). It's just an extension of the fact it shares your actions.

Yes, the summon gets your implement bonuses to attack and any other permanent bonuses you have as well for that matter (like expertise).

Summons can indeed flank and count as creatures. So abilities and powers that target creatures target them.

 

[Aulirophile]

SUMMONED CREATURE
A creature you summon uses these rules, unless a
power description says otherwise.
✦ Allied Creature: When you use a summoning
power, you create a creature that is an ally to you
and your allies. The power determines where the
summoned creature appears.
✦ Your Defenses: The summoned creature’s
defenses equal yours when you summon it, not
including any temporary bonuses or penalties.
✦ Hit Points: The summoned creature’s maximum
hit points equal your bloodied value. When the
summoned creature drops to 0 hit points, it is
destroyed, and you lose a healing surge. If you have
no healing surges left, you instead take damage
equal to half your bloodied value.
✦ No Healing Surges: The summoned creature lacks
healing surges, but if a power allows it to spend a
healing surge, you can spend a healing surge for it.
The summoned creature then gains the benefit of
the healing surge, instead of your gaining it.
✦ Speed: The summoning power determines the
summoned creature’s speed.
✦ Commanding the Creature: The summoned creature
has no actions of its own; you spend actions
to command it mentally. You can command the
creature only if you have line of effect to it. When
you command the creature, the two of you share
knowledge but not senses.
As a minor action, you can command the
summoned creature to take one of the following
actions, if it is physically capable of taking that
action: crawl, escape, fly, open or close a door or a
container, pick up or drop an item, run, stand up,
shift, squeeze, or walk.
The summoning power determines any special
commands you can give the summoned creature
and gives an action type for each command. If a
special command is a minor action, you can give
that command only once during each of your turns.
✦ Attacks and Checks: If a summoning power
allows the summoned creature to attack, you make
an attack through the creature, as specified in the
power description. If the summoned creature can
make a skill check or an ability check, you make
the check. Attacks and checks you make through
the creature do not include temporary bonuses or
penalties to your statistics.
✦ Duration: Unless the summoning power states otherwise,
the summoned creature lasts until the end
of the encounter and then disappears. As a minor
action, you can dismiss the summoned creature.

Ah, K. It shares actions with you, including OA's. If something provokes an OA, then you can use your OA for the turn to let the Fire Warrior take it.

It gets everything. Implement, feats, magic items. Chances are if you add it to your normal rolls, the summon also gets it (I literally can't think of any exceptions).

Note: Summons do not have an MBA unless they say they do. No matter how juicy that Standard is Warlord's can't let them take it again.

 

[twilsemail]

Summons can indeed flank and count as creatures. So abilities and powers that target creatures target them.

Summons can flank if they've got an opportunity attack and are capable of using it. If you've summoned a Dretch, he cannot flank as he has no opportunity attack.

 

[Pbartender]

No, if someone adjacent to it provokes an AoO you can use it to make the attack. What the rule means is that if your summon takes an AoO and then (for whatever reason) it provokes from you on the same turn you cannot take an AoO (not that you'd probably want to). It's just an extension of the fact it shares your actions.

Yes, the summon gets your implement bonuses to attack and any other permanent bonuses you have as well for that matter (like expertise).

Summons can indeed flank and count as creatures. So abilities and powers that target creatures target them.

That's it.

Look at it this way... You are making an Opportunity Attack through your summoned creature, and the attack you make uses the stats listed in the power.

 

[hayek]

The one thing you don't get to add is temporary bonuses. So if a warlord uses some power that gives allies next to him +2 to hit until end of next turn and you are next to the warlord and your summons is on the other side of the battlefield, you get +2 to hit if you cast burning hands, but not if you attack with your summons. If the locations are reversed and your summons is next to him, the attacks with your summons get +2 to hit, but your other spells do not.

Note this is different from a permanent but situational bonus. I.e. if you have a helm of opportunity and bracers of tactical blows on then your summons' opportunity attacks get +1 to hit and +1d6 damage. Combine with a tome of arrest and 2nd level utility familiar harrier and your summons suddenly go from 'useless waste of a daily' to an actually mildly effective spell. Not to sidetrack things, but generally speaking summons are some of the worst dailies out there unless you are well-optimized to use them.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Summons can flank if they've got an opportunity attack and are capable of using it. If you've summoned a Dretch, he cannot flank as he has no opportunity attack.

The rules for flanking say "If you’re affected by an effect that prevents you from taking opportunity actions, you don’t flank." not that if you have no opportunity attack you cannot flank. My interpretation of that is that summons can flank even if they don't have an OA.

 

[hayek]

The rules for flanking say "If you’re affected by an effect that prevents you from taking opportunity actions, you don’t flank." not that if you have no opportunity attack you cannot flank. My interpretation of that is that summons can flank even if they don't have an OA.

This seems like a very strict RAW interpretation. Besides summons don't have any opportunity actions other than opp attacks (possibly).

RAI clearly suggest that flanking is tied to opportunity attacks, so no opp attacks=no flanking. Plus, that rule is from the player's handbook- it's written for players, who will always have opportunity attacks and only wouldn't if an effect prevented opportunity actions. If you had the summons' handbook, i'm sure the combat chapter would say something like:

"If you are lucky enough to have been created with an opportunity attack then you can flank with your master's allies. Otherwise, you cannot flank since you have no opportunity attack to use."

 

[twilsemail]

The one thing you don't get to add is temporary bonuses. So if a warlord uses some power that gives allies next to him +2 to hit until end of next turn and you are next to the warlord and your summons is on the other side of the battlefield, you get +2 to hit if you cast burning hands, but not if you attack with your summons. If the locations are reversed and your summons is next to him, the attacks with your summons get +2 to hit, but your other spells do not.

Can you source this at all? I would think the opposite would be true. As you are attacking through the summon and its stats are based directly off of your stats.

 

[hayek]

SUMMONED CREATURE
A creature you summon uses these rules, unless a
power description says otherwise.
...
✦ Commanding the Creature: The summoned creature
has no actions of its own...
As a minor action, you can command the
summoned creature to take one of the following
actions, if it is physically capable of taking that
action: crawl, escape, fly, open or close a door or a
container, pick up or drop an item, run, stand up,
shift, squeeze, or walk.
...
The summoning power determines any special
commands you can give the summoned creature
and gives an action type for each command.
...

Plus, note the summoning rules posted above- a summoned creature has no actions of its own by default and the default commands include no opportunity actions. It only gains an opportunity action if a special command for an opportunity attack is given in the spell's description.