Super Hero RPG...

[Cthulhu's Librarian]

Champions is without a doubt the best superhero game in existence. I dismiss everything else out of hand. Some will tell you it does not meet your criteria as being simple, but the truth is, once you understand the mechanics, it is a simple system, as simple as D&D is anyway.

Wow. Thats a pretty strong stance to take. Have you played any of the other systems that have been mentioned? To dismiss them out of hand without even giving them a try, or to at least read them, is hardly a valid way to make a comparison.

If Champions fits what you want from a superhero RPG thats fine, but to give someone advice that basically says "Ignore what everyone else is saying, I know whats best" is a pretty self centered attitude to take.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

I have to second Mutants and Masterminds as well, although character creation can be SERIOUSLY complicated. Marvel Universe is alright, it is diceless and uses cards a la CCGs, but it is no longer being supported. Silver Age Sentinels (both the D20 and Tri-Stat versions) is another option but have not played them.

Actually, the Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game (from WotC) was a card-based system (96 card-deck; a special set of 4 promo cards boosted it up to 100). It is no longer supported by WotC, but IMHO, it's a very nice system (esp. with the supplemental material provided in the Reed Richards Guide to Everything). You can basically make any style of character you want, with any power level that you desire.

The new Marvel Universe RPG, supported by Q.E.D., is a resource-allocation-based game. In essence, you have a pool of points/stones, which you spend on actions & the like. Really free-form, & quite feasible to create any concept, but unless you start off with a really high point base for a new character, your PCs won't be anywhere near as powerful as an established character. Also, it doesn't seem to be well-edited--some consistency issues between the main book & the 2 sourcebooks that are out for it (X-Men, & Hulk & the Avengers).

And the MURPG doesn't seem very friendly for creating characters with equipment-based powers or the like. However, I haven't tried to create such a character, so a can't say for sure (but from what I've read, it seems like you essentially wind up making 2 characters--one with the gear, & 1 w/out the gear).

My personal preference is the card-based Marvel game from WotC. Though I like the more generic power/skill categories in the new Marvel RPG, I don't really care for the high math maintenence of the game (how many stones spent on what actions; how many stones gained back when; etc.). However, the card-based game is out of print, & unless you can find a complete copy/set of cards on eBay, it's not really worth it (unless you have an opportunity to sit down & play the game, & find that you really like it--if so, then good hunting!).

(Bit of a thread hijack) However, I do have a question myself:

Can anyone tell me how Mutants & Masterminds (or any other d20-based superhero game) compares to games like Palladium's Heroes Unlimited (it's my only superhero game experience using a level-based, "class"-based system for supers)? I'm sure there's a fair amount of difference, but could someone point out specific examples & what not (like how powers are gained, skills, "classes," etc.)?

 

[Ranger REG]

Actually, I prefer the dice-based game version of TSR's Marvel Super-Heroes RPG, before the SAGA System.

 

[Desdichado]

Champions is without a doubt the best superhero game in existence. I dismiss everything else out of hand. Some will tell you it does not meet your criteria as being simple, but the truth is, once you understand the mechanics, it is a simple system, as simple as D&D is anyway.

I dismiss Champions out of hand ever since I owned the 1^st edition of it.

I haven't had trouble with character creation in M&M; it's the premier superhero game, as far as I'm concerned, and as near as I can tell from general opinion here and at rpg.net and other places. BESM can be a good option for really simplified rules, from what I've heard. Brave New World has one of the best superhero settings, IMO.

 

[DMScott]

Can anyone tell me how Mutants & Masterminds (or any other d20-based superhero game) compares to games like Palladium's Heroes Unlimited (it's my only superhero game experience using a level-based, "class"-based system for supers)? I'm sure there's a fair amount of difference, but could someone point out specific examples & what not (like how powers are gained, skills, "classes," etc.)?

M&M isn't class based, it's really a closer cousin to Champions or Superworld than any of the class-and-level based d20 games so far as character generation goes. You have a pool of points that you use to buy attributes, combat abilities, feats, skills, and powers. There's a power level that determines how high your other stats can go, based on how many points you have. As you play, you get some additional points as experience, and use them to buy new powers, skills, etc., but advancement is slower than the d20 standard.

 

[Ranger REG]

The new Marvel Universe RPG, supported by Q.E.D., is a resource-allocation-based game. In essence, you have a pool of points/stones, which you spend on actions & the like. Really free-form, & quite feasible to create any concept, but unless you start off with a really high point base for a new character, your PCs won't be anywhere near as powerful as an established character. Also, it doesn't seem to be well-edited--some consistency issues between the main book & the 2 sourcebooks that are out for it (X-Men, & Hulk & the Avengers).

And the MURPG doesn't seem very friendly for creating characters with equipment-based powers or the like. However, I haven't tried to create such a character, so a can't say for sure (but from what I've read, it seems like you essentially wind up making 2 characters--one with the gear, & 1 w/out the gear).

Hmm. It may be the reason for such low sale that Marvel have discontinued it.

Can anyone tell me how Mutants & Masterminds (or any other d20-based superhero game) compares to games like Palladium's Heroes Unlimited (it's my only superhero game experience using a level-based, "class"-based system for supers)? I'm sure there's a fair amount of difference, but could someone point out specific examples & what not (like how powers are gained, skills, "classes," etc.)?

Well, it's been a long while since I've used Heroes Unlimited (1st edition). MnM have no classes, however it provides several templates for you to choose and get into the game quickly (or from the suggested templates, you can tweak it to your desired PC). The default starting level is Power Level 10 (not necessarily equivalent to a 10th-level characters in D&D). You get power points (150 default) to spend on the six ability scores (base 10), attack bonus, defense bonus, powers (at cost per rank), skills (by rank), feats (by cost), and weakness. Oh, yeah, the Power Level 10 also represent your ceiling for power ranks and skills ranks (power level +3), attack bonus and defense bonus.

Each power show what you can do and offers extras as additional use or enhancement of the power at cost per rank. Each powers also offers flaws to reduce the power's cost per rank.

 

[Wrahn]

Let's see, of the Superhero game I have played (I will be dating myself here) include Heroes Unlimted, GURPS Supers, Superworld, I playtested the original DC Heroes, Villians and Vigilantes, and Marvel Superheroes. There were a few more, but they were small press stuff whose names you probably won't recognize.

I do have some knowledge of other games, by far and away Champions and the HERO system have them all beat in terms of the system. I have yet to come across something that the system can not represent, the combat system is both elegant in it's simplity and amazing in it's versatility.

One word of warning though, know how to add and subtract. About at the level of 3.0.

 

[buzzard]

To be quite honest, the concept of using the word 'simple' in any description having to do with Champions leaves me stunned. Champions is well known to be a very complicated game. This is not any slam on it, but it is certainly not simple. Champion's strength is in it's detail (though it is also the weakness).

My personal favorites on superhero games are:
DC Heroes -which really amounts to a simple game, but quite elegant and flexible. I believe it is still available (without the DC license) as Blood of Heroes
Villains and Vigilantees -complicated in it's way, but a classic
Mutants and Masterminds -which is a fairly neat system and fairly simple.

buzzard

 

[GuardianLurker]

Hi! I'm looking for an easy to play and good super hero rpg. Anyone have suggestions?

Define easy to play and good.

No seriously, I'll second SimonMoon5's recommendation for the OOP DCHeroes rules by Mayfair. While the same ruleset is now available as Blood of Heroes from Pulsar, the production quality is much lower.

It is, no-holds-barred, the most elegant and fast-to-play system I've ever encountered. I haven't touched it in almost 10 years, and still feel confident that I could run a game with pregen PCs and a GM screen. It's single drawback is that it sucks at anything other than the supers genre.

Hero/Champions is well-constructed, but I can't really call it simple to play - expect to roll more d6's than a WW gamer rolls d10's, and perform math on the fly. It is *not* a rules light system. Play before GMing. GURPS Supers is in the same boat - actually, I always have trouble telling Hero System from GURPS.

M&M and the other d20 supers are heavily influenced by Champions - in game play is faster, but character creation tends to be just as complex.

Other supers games include BESM (it's anime really, but will work just as well as a supers), Brave New World (don't own, so no comment), and Godlike (WWII supers).

 

[SSquirrel]

For non d20 I really like Aberrant. Ban Quantum Blast (but allow neutered versions that come with various Mastery suites of powers), allow 2 dots to be purchased at reduced price for each dot of Taint when buying a power instead of 1 and start with 50 nova points and its a little more "the power of a god" as the ads said *grin*

For d20, I have CBSH, Paragon and the Foundation (now in print as I saw it at my FLGS) and the original publication of 4 Color to Fantasy. I must say that of the 4 I mention there that 4C2F was the most impressive to me. That, the mutations of Gamma World and Mecha all from Polyhedron had me imagining a D&D world with magic powered mechs, mutated elves and orcs, and super powers. I really enjoyed how you could figure out how much less money you had than the DMG said you should have for your level and take super powers. I'm not too fond of the d20 Modern setup (not entirely sure why..maybe it's just b/c Ubrana Arcana is really expensive) but I'll stick with the original version of that one.

That being said, I also own SAS d20 and want to own Mutants & Masterminds (grabbed a pdf of it to browse thru from Kazaa but haven't yet). SAS was WAY too complex for everything IMO. This is why I probably would hate HERO/Champions too. Then again, Rolemaster isn't that bad after character creation....

Hagen