Superhero systems?

[Cedric]

In D&D I've played Elves, Dwarves, Warriors, Mages and several others...

In Champions I've played a small ball of energy that floated around without arms or legs, naive about the world around him, but healing those injured that he came across...even from death itself.

In Champions I've played a highly intelligent Bio-Engineered Single Cell Organism designed to absorb other simple organisms and compounds...able to assume any shape and physical makeup he was the perfect assassin in a world where machines had failed.

In Champions I've played a WWII British Fighter Pilot, that after being shot down, was placed in a top secret german prison camp where genetic experimentation was performed on him. 50 years later, with no memory of his past, he fought crime as a way to turn a buck and hadn't aged a day. He may have forgotten his past, but his past never forgot him.

Your options are as limited as your imagination, dare to explore the wonders and depths of your own mind.

Cedric

 

[Horacio]

Cedric, I think your D&D experience seems to be a bit limited if you only have played "Elves, Dwarves, Warriors, Mages and several others..."

Seriosly, since d20 come out I've played and DMed really lots of different concepts, at least as different as I could do in Hero system.

Don't minsunderstand me, Hero is great, but d20 is as least as diverse and open as Hero... and a lot easier


IMHO, of course. YMMV...

 

[Samurai]

Sorry, but no class/race/level-based system can ever match a freeform system like Hero, Gurps, or SAS. Sure, you can have a stockpile of hundreds of prestige classes from dozens of books, but creating exactly the character you want from scratch is just a whole other ball 'o wax, IMHO. YMV, of course...

 

[Bugaboo]

Seriously, since d20 come out I've played and DMed really lots of different concepts, at least as different as I could do in Hero system.

Don't minsunderstand me, Hero is great, but d20 is as least as diverse and open as Hero... and a lot easier.

THAT made me laugh. And it takes a lot to elicit a chuckle from me. Good job!

 

[Mortaneus]

The main problem I have with Hero, when you use it for anything other than superheroes, is equipment.

In a superhero game, it makes sense that people should pay their hard earned points for cool gizmos.

In a fantasy setting, though, it breaks down. A warrior picks up a magic sword, and suddenly he owes points? Or even if he doesn't, then it's unfair to the wizards. How do you deal with a cloak of invisibility?

In D&D and GURPS, you pay some money and/or kill some monsters, and bang, you have a magic item. A wizard can write a spell down in his book (D&D), or spend a couple of character points to learn a spell as a skill (GURPS).

Hero? Mr. Wizard has to plop down a huge number of character points to even get a basic spell!

And if you do it though power pools, then they're obscenely powerful.

Additionally, the hero skill system just doesn't compare to GURPS. Skills seem too 'tacked on' for my taste. In D&D and GURPS, skills are much more integral to the system.

Hero is great if you want cool powers.

GURPS and D&D are much better for portraying actual people and worlds, without everything having to be balanced through a point cost. Heck, I can't even buy a plot of real estate in hero without having to buy a 'base'.

 

[Horacio]

THAT made me laugh. And it takes a lot to elicit a chuckle from me. Good job!

I made Bugaboo laugh

I should put that in my signature...

 

[Horacio]

Sorry, but no class/race/level-based system can ever match a freeform system like Hero, Gurps, or SAS. Sure, you can have a stockpile of hundreds of prestige classes from dozens of books, but creating exactly the character you want from scratch is just a whole other ball 'o wax, IMHO. YMV, of course...

Have you looked at Four Color to Fantasy from Natural 20 Press (written by Morrus, Ranger Wickett and Nemmerle)?

Maybe you would be surprised...

 

[Dinkeldog]

Mortaneous, think of magical equipment (especially) as akin to what was done in Earthdawn. Just picking up the gear isn't the power-up. Spending your own experience is the power-up. It also allows for dynamic equipment that gets more powerful as you invest more of yourself into it.

I have no issue with that for Champions.

The math also never frightened me. If it's really scary for you, invest in a pocket calculator. They cost about 5 bucks for the functionality you need, and you can use it to do your taxes.

My only real issue with Champions, like other non-levelling systems, is that play is to static. Sure, you get an experience point or 3 after an adventure, but your hero is built on 250 giving you a little less than 1% improvement from your baseline character. I want things to advance a little more quickly than that, so I'm pretty much stuck in levelling systems. (Note: if you start giving out 10 XP/session, you start picking up the pace a bit, but then you might as well just be using a level-based system.)

The main problem I have with Hero, when you use it for anything other than superheroes, is equipment.

In a superhero game, it makes sense that people should pay their hard earned points for cool gizmos.

In a fantasy setting, though, it breaks down. A warrior picks up a magic sword, and suddenly he owes points? Or even if he doesn't, then it's unfair to the wizards. How do you deal with a cloak of invisibility?

In D&D and GURPS, you pay some money and/or kill some monsters, and bang, you have a magic item. A wizard can write a spell down in his book (D&D), or spend a couple of character points to learn a spell as a skill (GURPS).

Hero? Mr. Wizard has to plop down a huge number of character points to even get a basic spell!

And if you do it though power pools, then they're obscenely powerful.

Additionally, the hero skill system just doesn't compare to GURPS. Skills seem too 'tacked on' for my taste. In D&D and GURPS, skills are much more integral to the system.

Hero is great if you want cool powers.

GURPS and D&D are much better for portraying actual people and worlds, without everything having to be balanced through a point cost. Heck, I can't even buy a plot of real estate in hero without having to buy a 'base'.

 

[Warchild]

Sorry, but no class/race/level-based system can ever match a freeform system like Hero, Gurps, or SAS. Sure, you can have a stockpile of hundreds of prestige classes from dozens of books, but creating exactly the character you want from scratch is just a whole other ball 'o wax, IMHO. YMV, of course...

Creating a unique prestige class for your character (or having your DM make you one) isn't any harder than putting together a pont based character in Hero or Gurps. I've played 3E for 3 years now (give or take) and i 've played Hero on and off again since Champions first came out (then Champions II, then Champions III, etc). I'm really glad that for you D&D cannot match Hero, but for many of us it matches and exceeds Hero for fantasy games. 3E anyway.
I think soon M&M will match/exceed Hero for super hero gaming. Although i think DC/MEGS/BOH had already done that!

 

[NLP]

My only real issue with Champions, like other non-levelling systems, is that play is to static. Sure, you get an experience point or 3 after an adventure, but your hero is built on 250 giving you a little less than 1% improvement from your baseline character. I want things to advance a little more quickly than that, so I'm pretty much stuck in levelling systems. (Note: if you start giving out 10 XP/session, you start picking up the pace a bit, but then you might as well just be using a level-based system.)

This is partially addressed in 5th Edition by raising the starting point total to 350 points. At that point-level it is fairly simple to get the type of character you want right from the get-go. If you think about it, characters in comic books and fiction seldom change. I comic character's powers are changed maybe once every 5 years. Conan might learn a new language and some new cultural skills from his travels, but his physique and prowess have not really changed from book to book.

I do think if you want to make major changes to your characters on a regular basis then increasing the XP output is one way to do it. My players make around 10 points a month on average, but if it gets you what you want there is nothing wrong with 10 points a week. I just prefer things a little more static in my games.