D&D 5E Surf's D&D 5e Monster Analysis

[surfarcher]

I for one am glad you wrote two introductory posts. I ended up reading them again after reading part 3.

Well thanks for the positive feedback on that! I'm glad some folks appreciated it

Given the ability score cap of 30 even for god-like beings, I think your prediction of very high CR monsters in the Monster Manual is probably going to be correct. Ability scores scale based on CR, so at what CR will monsters hit 30 in an ability score based on the progression of ability scores in the existing monster sample?

It's a bit fuzzy right now since we are below CR10 and working on projections but it looks like almost definitely after CR25.

Over the last few years I've become less and less enamored with the tactical encounter approach to challenge design. I appreciate a more environmental approach like an older edition sandbox where threats are not scaled to the party and where how combat occurs emerges from play rather than having my preset trigger to enter combat mode hit. CR is useful as a smaller number to talk about when looking at XPs and describing just how dangerous a creature looks, but one thing I'm happy about is that the scaling of monster stats doesn't seem to be just about providing a constant challenge to the PCs, but a fair way of assessing XPs. The presence of the largest creature in the starter set seems to be indicative of the support for a more environment/sand box approach.

What was frustrating for me in the CR analysis was the many wide bands and blurred boundaries. But these are part of the fairly flexible framework around build monsters and as a DM and habitual monster designer I have a real appreciation for this.

I am just impatient for actual hard numbers for ability scores, hp, damage, and AC. Sounds like CR governs these in much the same way as level governs these for players, though....

Yes exatly. The framework is fuzzier than for PCs and more fluid. But I see a definite hierarchy. They are probably more flexible than you think tho.

 

[doctorhook]

@surfarcher : Both links to part 3 (posts #1 and #38) are broken, bud!

EDIT: Also, great post once again! Keep it up!

 

[surfarcher]

@surfarcher : Both links to part 3 (posts #1 and #38) are broken, bud!

Thanks for the heads up. All fixed now!

 

[doctorhook]

Thanks for the heads up. All fixed now!

No problemo! Keep doin' what you're doin'!

 

[nnms]

It's a bit fuzzy right now since we are below CR10 and working on projections but it looks like almost definitely after CR25.

It's very interesting that a god like being will end up being an appropriate foe for a party of the highest level characters, while they are still within a bounded range from level 1 characters. I really like that.

What was frustrating for me in the CR analysis was the many wide bands and blurred boundaries. But these are part of the fairly flexible framework around build monsters and as a DM and habitual monster designer I have a real appreciation for this.

As long as we don't have a situation where skill DCs and monster stats pretty much exactly scale with PC levels so you're not actually changing the character's capabilities, I'll be happy. I'll take blurriness and and wide bands over rigid precision meant to keep a target number on the d20 the same from level to level.

I love the ogre's AC, for example. And it's host of horrible ability score saves.

 

[surfarcher]

It's very interesting that a god like being will end up being an appropriate foe for a party of the highest level characters, while they are still within a bounded range from level 1 characters. I really like that.

Yeah it's nice. Of course the massive damage from the deity and the ocean of hitpoints... Well the poor level 1 PCs won't stand much of a chance lol

As long as we don't have a situation where skill DCs and monster stats pretty much exactly scale with PC levels so you're not actually changing the character's capabilities, I'll be happy. I'll take blurriness and and wide bands over rigid precision meant to keep a target number on the d20 the same from level to level.

I'd agree with that. Something I particularly like is that it's very much brought the art back into making monsters, while still having a sound mathematical base. And having my critters stay relevant after the PCs level up... What's not to like about that?

I love the ogre's AC, for example. And it's host of horrible ability score saves.

Yeah

 

[nnms]

Yeah it's nice. Of course the massive damage from the deity and the ocean of hitpoints... Well the poor level 1 PCs won't stand much of a chance lol

Well when you combine it with the ability to choose to knock out when you reduce someone to zero, I can see the boisterous god of drinking taking a punch to the chin, smiling and clocking the guy on the head for 100+ damage and just knocking him out. It reminds me of the old 80s Hercules comics where he gets in brawls in the bars on space stations (why Hercules was in space, I don't know).

While I do plan on having a game where the gods are actually walking around on the planet, I don't particularly plan on the PCs engage them in any serious way unless they really decide they want to find one and really pursue the task.

 

[surfarcher]

Well when you combine it with the ability to choose to knock out when you reduce someone to zero, I can see the boisterous god of drinking taking a punch to the chin, smiling and clocking the guy on the head for 100+ damage and just knocking him out. It reminds me of the old 80s Hercules comics where he gets in brawls in the bars on space stations (why Hercules was in space, I don't know).

While I do plan on having a game where the gods are actually walking around on the planet, I don't particularly plan on the PCs engage them in any serious way unless they really decide they want to find one and really pursue the task.

That sounds fun!

 

[surfarcher]

OK I just posted Part 4: Construction: Ability Scores & HP .

Enjoy! ... And remember I love to hear feedback and questions!

 

[surfarcher]

OK we went from 33 critters to 209 in about a week.

So next post will be a little stocktake/review to check for corrections, mistakes, etc Shouldn't delay the rest of the series by more than a few days... I hope! *gulp*