Two gentlemen are sharing a nice conversation at a pub table, one of them is about to stab the other or cast an offensive spell.
From reading of this part of the surprise rules.
The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
You can read that and go with no way either man could be surprised because they are not using stealth or taking the hide action, RAW you would probably be right.
I allow the attacker to make a Sleight of Hand opposed by Perception check, or a Deception opposed by Insight check instead of the normal Stealth vs Perception.
But once surprised is determined you still follow the normal rules for initiative, so if for instance the attacker in the above situation fails the opposed skill check, and then doesn't win initiative his target gets to act before he ever goes.
From reading of this part of the surprise rules.
The DM determines who might be surprised. If neither side tries to be stealthy, they automatically notice each other. Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter.
You can read that and go with no way either man could be surprised because they are not using stealth or taking the hide action, RAW you would probably be right.
I allow the attacker to make a Sleight of Hand opposed by Perception check, or a Deception opposed by Insight check instead of the normal Stealth vs Perception.
But once surprised is determined you still follow the normal rules for initiative, so if for instance the attacker in the above situation fails the opposed skill check, and then doesn't win initiative his target gets to act before he ever goes.
