D&D 5E Surprise and initiative

[Athinar]

After the Surprise the Rogue in a one on one combat is died, one attack then runs away to hide another day

 

[Athinar]

RAW needs to be cooked before it is ready to be eaten

 

[guachi]

I also believe Paraxis is correct in his reading of surprise.

Let's say you are a fighter with Protection style. You are surprised but have the highest initiative. You go first but can't actually take an action or a bonus action. Some enemy then goes and attacks an ally adjacent to you. You can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll because the rules say you can.

 

[Athinar]

Merric Blackman
The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)

That doesn't follow for me. If you surprise someone, they're unaware of your position, so you still get Sneak Attack and Advantage on your attack, even after their turn has come up and they've skipped it.

After that, it comes down to the definition of "taken a turn". And I would say that a monster that couldn't move or take actions due to surprise hasn't taken its turn yet.

Cheers!

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-s-New-Sage-Advice-Column/page5#ixzz3Ry45jxmo

 

[Athinar]

Paraxis maybe correct with the reading RAW but the RAW is incorrect and will be fixed, so say we all

 

[Athinar]

Lanefan

Registered User
Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)

See, here again: use RACS. Regardless of what the RAW says, an assassin surprising an opponent should either get a free shot before initiative is rolled at all or automatically win init. in the first round - or get advantage on the init. roll and the victim gets disadvantage?

RACS in general is completely up to the DM, but there's places where the designers could throw 'em in too.

Lanefan

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-s-New-Sage-Advice-Column/page5#ixzz3Ry69KUKB

 

[Trit One-Ear]

That doesn't follow for me. If you surprise someone, they're unaware of your position, so you still get Sneak Attack and Advantage on your attack, even after their turn has come up and they've skipped it.

This argument is all circumstantial. If your version of surprise is kicking down the door while the enemy is sitting around, playing cards etc, than yes, they know your position, but cannot act. In this circumstance, the rules support the narrative.

If the assassin in hiding, then he'd still have advantage, assuming his Stealth check was enough to be hidden in the first place. That's how @Paraxis' reading of the rules and the assassin class feature can still work together. If you're hidden, just because combat has started doesn't mean your position is given away, hence you still have advantage. Again, the rules and narrative work together.

FWIW, I usually allow one character to start a combat with an attack roll if this degree of surprise is allowed (enemy not aware of your position, etc.) Then we roll initiative, placing that person at the top of the order. But that's just at my table.

Trit

 

[Athinar]

I'm playing a Halfling assassin, I don't knock down doors, that is for Razzog the Half Orc Barbarian to do, I hide behind others or around corners or in brushes or strip naked with nothing but my bow and arrows and being carried by the Warlock Imp (Invisible)

J Crawford says in a Tweet that is possible "carried by the Warlock Imp (Invisible)"

His Reading says nothing about what you wrote, his words are something like this "Failed Initiative is a Failed Surprise even if you surprised the creature"

@Paraxis' reading of the rules and the assassin class feature can still work together, BS

 

[Athinar]

But we do have to remember that there is a Feat that stops Surprise dead in it's tracks, Alert Feat, can not be surprised

 

[Sword of Spirit]

FWIW, I usually allow one character to start a combat with an attack roll if this degree of surprise is allowed (enemy not aware of your position, etc.) Then we roll initiative, placing that person at the top of the order. But that's just at my table.

Trit

The method I finally settled on for this rather common scenario is that if a group is springing a surprise and it is desirable for a particular member of the group to act first, they just act first on that round (rather than at their initiative count) and then proceed to act on their normal initiative for the remaining rounds of the battle. The only downside is that there will be a longer than normal gap between their first and second turns.

It's kind of sad that there really isn't a rule that says what to do in that scenario. Something along the lines of "starting combat" rules wouldn't be amiss.