D&D General Surprise, Initiative and What will you do?

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Some of us know how to build encounters such that what you say doesn't actually happen. Not everyone is stuck thinking they have to use the encounter building rules in the DMG thus resulting in pushover fights.

Sure, double everything's HP and add CR to damage, 1/2 CR to AC, saves, etc. If you rebuild the entire MM's math it might prove a challenge or have something go beyond 2 rounds.

Even at 3 rounds, a surprise round is too much. 5E is already a cakewalk in the player's favor.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Sure, double everything's HP and add CR to damage, 1/2 CR to AC, saves, etc. If you rebuild the entire MM's math it might prove a challenge or have something go beyond 2 rounds.

Which is exactly what we do. Because why wouldn't we? It ain't that hard and it produces the results we want.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Which is exactly what we do. Because why wouldn't we? It ain't that hard and it produces the results we want.

Right, but the RAW does matter for game balance. And because everything is a 2 thump chump, the game doesnt want to hand out a free round.

 

[Deset Gled]

Re: easy encounters.

There's a thing called "resource management". Admittedly, less in current D&D than older editions. But just because you win a battle doesn't mean it's free. Spell slots, abilities, time, etc, all add up. Setting up an ambush is a type of resource management, typically trading time and some other resources for an easy avoidance of HP cost.

Also, let's not pretend every fight is a near TPK. Most D&D battles are designed for the party to win. It's the "how" that's fun. Surprise rounds can be fun.

 

[Belen]

Sure, double everything's HP and add CR to damage, 1/2 CR to AC, saves, etc. If you rebuild the entire MM's math it might prove a challenge or have something go beyond 2 rounds.

Even at 3 rounds, a surprise round is too much. 5E is already a cakewalk in the player's favor.

Nope.

Not everyone gets surprise and it is very hard to set up as not everyone is stealthy. The party usually has to split up where non stealths are 30-60 away.

I have never seen a nuke scenario outside of taking out 2-3 guards because my encounters are never standard textbook.

I would never use the new surprise rules.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Right, but the RAW does matter for game balance. And because everything is a 2 thump chump, the game doesnt want to hand out a free round.

Game balance is a table issue. Every table and every party is different, so "balance" is not an objective metric and needs to be handled by individual players and DMs.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Game balance is a table issue. Every table and every party is different, so "balance" is not an objective metric and needs to be handled by individual players and DMs.

Then why have rules at all? Why not let mages call down meteor swarms at 1st level, or let fighters just say "I cut his head off" and if the attack hits, you cut their head off?

The game's rules are designed with balance in mind, and various mechanics support this. The game is firmly in combat as sport. This is why we have HP. Letting you bypass that with repetitive (dull) stealth behavior isn't a design goal, hence the surprise rules tamping down on that. The surprising side is already very likely to go first, meaning some of the opposition will already be dead by the time their turn comes up.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Nope.

Not everyone gets surprise and it is very hard to set up as not everyone is stealthy. The party usually has to split up where non stealths are 30-60 away.

I have never seen a nuke scenario outside of taking out 2-3 guards because my encounters are never standard textbook.

I would never use the new surprise rules.

Pass without trace lasts an hour and gives +10 to stealth to the whole party. Monsters have pathetic perception scores. It is trivially easy to get surprise in 5E.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then why have rules at all? Why not let mages call down meteor swarms at 1st level, or let fighters just say "I cut his head off" and if the attack hits, you cut their head off?

The game's rules are designed with balance in mind, and various mechanics support this. The game is firmly in combat as sport. This is why we have HP. Letting you bypass that with repetitive (dull) stealth behavior isn't a design goal, hence the surprise rules tamping down on that. The surprising side is already very likely to go first, meaning some of the opposition will already be dead by the time their turn comes up.

We've had HP for 50 years, but I wouldn't say D&D has always been Combat as Sport. And I'm nearly certain that the designer's concerns about balance are simply not are the same intensity level as yours.

The books provide an example, which we are all extremely free to deviate from if desired, and indeed have no mandate to take seriously.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Pass without trace lasts an hour and gives +10 to stealth to the whole party. Monsters have pathetic perception scores. It is trivially easy to get surprise in 5E.

Have you considered changing Pass Without Trace (and any other rules you don't care for) at your table?