D&D General Surprise, Initiative and What will you do?

[Zaukrie]

If I read correctly, there is no surprise anymore (granting advantage or disadvantage on initiative isn't surprise, IMO).

So, no ambushes where one side acts first. No planning what to do outside a door, opening it, and acting first *

Is that correct? If so, not a fan....

*sure, you could theoretically let your players ready an action for opening the door, but that's just gaming the system, IMO. Otherwise, why not let them walk down every hallway, with actions always at the ready? They would always get to go first every fight....

I'm likely going to not play by this particular rule (and it is another example of why I hate the initiative rules in 5e).

 

[bedir than]

If I read correctly, there is no surprise anymore (granting advantage or disadvantage on initiative isn't surprise, IMO).

So, no ambushes where one side acts first.

Advantage on initiative is what gets you to act first.

 

[Quickleaf]

I've come to hold the view that any Surprise & Initiative rules attempt a one-size-fits-all solution (which is a perfectly reasonable impulse to keep it simple) for multiple distinct situations which just don't conform to those rules. Rather there are multiple forms of Surprise & multiple forms Initiative can take depending on the situation.

For instance, there's the advance-planned ambush Surprise which might be best reflected by the ambushing side choosing the terrain layout to their maximum advantage.

There's the scout sent ahead Surprise which really needs the "surprise round" (or 2014 surprised not-a-condition) in order for "I get the guard before they can shout alarm" to work.

Then there's the OSR style party comes around the corner as troglodytes come around the corner... who is surprised? Then the 2024 advantage/disadvantage on initiative checks makes more sense.

 

[Horwath]

Advantage on initiative is what gets you to act first.

not a guarantee.

 

[Zaukrie]

Advantage on initiative is what gets you to act first.

If you win the roll....and you still have to go in order of the roll....so no opening the door, blasting fireball, and then charging in if the order isn't that.

 

[bedir than]

not a guarantee.

Best laid plans and all that.

 

[Horwath]

Best laid plans and all that.

thanks, but I will keep the 5.0 version where I do get an action for sure in surprise 1st, and for 2nd round it's all for grabs.

Maybe an alternative;
Surprised targets lose 1st round of actions, but they gain advantage on initiative so it reduces the chance of being hammered with 2 rounds in a row.

 

[DEFCON 1]

This is one of those situations where I already have my standard ways of running things from my years of running games in all different systems, so it doesn't matter what the book puts in. I'll just run it my way as I always do.

 

[Zaukrie]

I am OK with regular initiative once a combat starts (though I don't like it either), but not before....which IMO, surprise is before.....

 

[Deset Gled]

I would hope that this change also has additions to the DMG to discuss different ways the GM could run (ad hoc) different types of ambush and surprise scenarios. Unfortunately, the only thing to do is wait and see.