Surprise Round

[Menexenus]

Back when I was playing the Temple of Elemental Evil computer game, I noticed that it always included a Surprise Round at the beginning of every combat, even if my characters had already noticed the bad guys before the combat started. However, in the face-to-face campaigns I play in, surprise rounds are pretty rare. Usually, for whatever reason, we are aware of our foes before the combat starts. Sometimes we are the ones on the attack, assaulting a bad guy fortress. Sometimes we make our Spot/Listen rolls to discover that someone is approaching us. But for whatever reason, in the games I play in, surprise rounds are very rare.

So that made me wonder how things work in other people's games? About how often would you say that you have to deal with surprise rounds in your game? (Are we playing it "wrong" in my game? Advice for using the surprise round "correctly" is welcome.)

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I think part of the problem with surprise is that everyone in the party gets a Listen/Spot check so chances are that somebody is going to pass.

Unfortunately, the common alternative seems to be having the person with the highest modifier make the check but that makes everyone else's modifiers irrelevant.

Maybe having the person with the highest modifier make the check, with everyone else doing Aid Another would be a better way to check for surprise. Not a perfect solution as the person with a +24 modifier still sorta gets ripped off if there's a person with a +25 modifier, but what can ya do...

 

[Delta]

Perhaps you really mean the "flat-footed condition at the start of every combat"? That is supposed to be enforced for all combats (and is something I see usually overlooked).

Surprise rounds are something different.

 

[Festivus]

Wow are you right about that. I forget about that all the time, and the players won't point it out

I think a big fat note will solve that problem.

 

[Menexenus]

Delta makes a good distinction. However, to clarify, I mean *both*. I mean the surprise round itself (the round during which every character may only take a partial action *if* they are aware of the attack), *and* the condition of being flat-footed (which begins during the surprise round and extends until the character's initiative comes up). In the campaigns I am a part of, we usually skip both unless there is a reason why some characters are completely clueless about the attack. (But this rarely happens.)

Delta points out that, even without a surprise round, players are supposed to begin the combat flat-footed until their initiative comes up. With regard to this point, the players in my group have always argued as follows: "Why should I be considered flat-footed if I was aware of the threat before combat started?" No one in my group has a good answer to that question. That is why we only deal with flat-footedness if there is a surprise round. (And since there is rarely a surprise round, we rarely deal with flat-footedness.)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If you follow the rules strictly, surprise would be rare.

You're "supposed" to make rolls to see if you're seen at a distance, even if you're using stealth. However, the "surprisees" get to make Spot checks at this point. If they make any, they will not be surprised. If the dice indicate the battle starts at long range, then the sneakers may have to make multiple Hide checks in order to sneak up within 30 feet (partial charge range, or whatever it's called in 3.5).

Multiple die rolls hurt stealth, too. Someone is going to roll low on Hide or Move Silently, and then there's no surprise. It's rare the whole party is stealthy too; if you don't want to leave out party members, you won't be using stealth that much.

 

[shilsen]

I have surprise rounds in my games most of the time. But since there are 5 PCs, some of them with high Spot/Listen checks, a lot of the time at least a couple of PCs are also acting in the surprise round.

 

[howandwhy99]

Stealth and detection are your friend. If the PCs know an enemy is nearby and hasn't detected them yet, they can:

• leave
• plan
• buff
• power up suite
• play a trick
• ambush

Many of which can be done together. Ambushing will give those who attack first a surprise round and leave the enemy flat-footed (typically). This is perfect for rogues and other sneak attackers.

Having prior knowledge of the enemy is a HUGE advantage. (Even if it's just a divination spell or rumor)

 

[3d6]

I don't use suprise rounds often because my NPCs rarely hide. I tend to use monsters more than classed NPCs, and monsters tend to have negative Hide modifiers.

 

[argo]

My group tends to have a nearly obsessive attention to reconnisance so they often surprise enemies. OTOH the GM's in my group (including me) tend to like our ambushes. So yeah, theres lots of suprise going around.

Delta points out that, even without a surprise round, players are supposed to begin the combat flat-footed until their initiative comes up. With regard to this point, the players in my group have always argued as follows: "Why should I be considered flat-footed if I was aware of the threat before combat started?" No one in my group has a good answer to that question. That is why we only deal with flat-footedness if there is a surprise round. (And since there is rarely a surprise round, we rarely deal with flat-footedness.)

Answer: because flat-footedness represents more than just awarness of a threat it also represents your preparadness to meet that threat. The guys who win innitative got ready faster; weither that means they finished tying their shooelaces first or it means they have a more aggressive mental aittitude. The guys who lost initative are still fumbling around with their shield straps or maybe they are thinking of ways the combat could be avoided and not "in the zone". Either way being flat-footed simply means you were a little bit slower than the other guy and in a fight being just a little bit slower can make all the difference in the world.

Also, from a balance standpoint, winning innitative is a huge deal for rogues. If your bad guys are never flat-footed then your rogues are missing one of their best opportunities to contribute to combat.

Hope that helps.