Surprise Round

[irdeggman]

Hmm flat footed, sruprise round and regular rounds.

From the SRD:

HOW COMBAT WORKS
Combat is cyclical; everybody acts in turn in a regular cycle of rounds. Combat follows this sequence:
1. Each combatant starts out flat-footed. Once a combatant acts, he or she is no longer flat-footed.
2. Determine which characters are aware of their opponents at the start of the battle. If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds of combat begin. The combatants who are aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take one action (either a standard action or a move action) during the surprise round. Combatants who were unaware do not get to act in the surprise round. If no one or everyone starts the battle aware, there is no surprise round.
3. Combatants who have not yet rolled initiative do so. All combatants are now ready to begin their first regular round of combat.
4. Combatants act in initiative order (highest to lowest).
5. When everyone has had a turn, the combatant with the highest initiative acts again, and steps 4 and 5 repeat until combat ends.


Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can’t use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which allows them to avoid losing their Dexterity bonus to AC due to being flat-footed.
A flat-footed character can’t make attacks of opportunity.


SURPRISE
When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you’re surprised.

Determining Awareness
Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.
Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks.
The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

Looks like there are words to supprot two different stands.

One that you are flat footed until you get to act in the "regular" round.

Another that you are flat footed until you get to act (either in the surprise round or the regular round.

I choose the latter one - that you are flat-footed until you get to act. If you act in the surprise round you are no longer flat footed.

 

[frankthedm]

I carried the 3.0 rule varient of every combatant's first action is a 'partial /single action'. Those who act in the surprise round act taking a single action, then the people who did not se it coming collect thier bearings and perform thier single action and then the combat cycle continues. I like because it makes getting the drop on some really matters and a dimwhit tank can't just let himself be surprised in hopes of launching a Full Attack the first time he acts.

 

[MarkB]

Hmm flat footed, sruprise round and regular rounds.

From the SRD:



Looks like there are words to supprot two different stands.

One that you are flat footed until you get to act in the "regular" round.

Another that you are flat footed until you get to act (either in the surprise round or the regular round.

I choose the latter one - that you are flat-footed until you get to act. If you act in the surprise round you are no longer flat footed.

I think you're letting the phrase "your first regular turn in the initiative order" mislead you there - it doesn't equate to "your initiative on the first regular combat round". The statements you quoted aren't actually contradictory, and your interpretation is correct.

The distinction being made in the second paragraph is not between the surprise round and the regular combat round, but between actions taken on your initiative in combat and actions taken outside of initiative. For instance, a character with Combat Reflexes might make an Attack of Opportunity before his turn comes round, but in spite of the fact that he has taken that action, he remains flat-footed until his initiative comes round.


To address the topic of the thread: I often use Surprise rounds, and tend to follow the rules closely for them - if any member of either side is unaware of the enemy when combat starts, a surprise round should occur.

What I sometimes tend to do is forget that the surprise round is limited to single actions only.