D&D 5E Surprise underrated abilities

[FormerlyHemlock]

Basically. Rough rule of thumb, comparing a first level spell with a first level spell.

Even in the case of Bless, there is no guarantee that the heavy damage dealing melee/ranged PCs are within 30 feet of the caster.

Conversely, FF is useless at long range but Bless is not. In fact, long range is almost the only time I ever cast it offensively. Mostly it gets cast to boost saving throws instead.

 

[KarinsDad]

Conversely, FF is useless at long range but Bless is not. In fact, long range is almost the only time I ever cast it offensively. Mostly it gets cast to boost saving throws instead.

They both have the same range. How exactly do you cast Bless at a longer range?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

They both have the same range. How exactly do you cast Bless at a longer range?

You cast Bless on the guy next to you who is shooting at someone far away with his longbow.

 

[KarinsDad]

You cast Bless on the guy next to you who is shooting at someone far away with his longbow.

Ah. Got it.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

It was surprising to me! I never cast the spell in AD&D, and AD&D was more melee-oriented anyway so being pinned in place wouldn't have been so big of a deal. In AD&D there was no "restrained" condition, so EBT wouldn't have given you disadvantage to attack and advantage to be attacked. Even reviewing the AD&D version of the spell today, the only standout feature is the enormously good scaling (N tentacles with N HP for N hours over 30 * N square feet for an N level wizard). The 5E version has a rather different profile: short-ranged and short-duration, scaling only in DC, but the penalty imposed is more severe.

Anyway, I found it surprising. It did twice as much damage on the initial failed save as I was initially expecting it to from having skimmed it in the PHB.

Yeah we might be talking about different editions; the 3.5E version of the spell was just plain broken: A 20' radius area filled with tentacles, immune to all damage, with a Grapple Bonus of (Caster Level +8), automatic grapple check on anyone who entered, doing 1d6+4 damage to anyone grappled until they escaped, and movement in the spell's area was at half speed.

This was a serious "ruin your whole day" type of spell. Pretty much everyone I've gamed with made this one of their first picks when they got 4th level spells. (Even the "nerfed" Pathfinder version was rather effective, if you could sort out their god-awful grappling rules. I've forgotten if there was a 4E version, or if it was any good.)

 

[Bupp]

One big early surprise was Spirit Guardians - an incredible spell for defense and offense at the same time and a good duration as well.

I've had a few enemy spellcasters use this. After the first one chewed up the party with it, the players all groaned audibly the next time a caster used it.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Yeah we might be talking about different editions; the 3.5E version of the spell was just plain broken: A 20' radius area filled with tentacles, immune to all damage, with a Grapple Bonus of (Caster Level +8), automatic grapple check on anyone who entered, doing 1d6+4 damage to anyone grappled until they escaped, and movement in the spell's area was at half speed.

This was a serious "ruin your whole day" type of spell. Pretty much everyone I've gamed with made this one of their first picks when they got 4th level spells. (Even the "nerfed" Pathfinder version was rather effective, if you could sort out their god-awful grappling rules. I've forgotten if there was a 4E version, or if it was any good.)

Sorry, I never played 3.x. When you said "since it first appeared" I naturally reached as far back in my memory as that memory goes. I don't know whether the spell existed in OD&D.

So anyway, coming from AD&D, it was surprising to me how good EBT is at inflicting damage compared to Fireball.

 

[phantomK9]

One of the PCs was playing a diviner wizard. Portent has to be one of the best abilities out there.

Halfling Diviner with Lucky Feat....

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

When one compares Spirit Guardians (3D8 or 14.5 damage) to Fireball (8D6 or 28 damage), for example, it's half of the damage round after round after round in almost as large of an area. It's also damage that cannot be resisted. And it's ally friendly damage. Fireball's only significant advantage is range.

Fireball's significant advantages over Spirit Guardians include: range, almost twice the area (706 sq feet vs 1256 sq feet), almost twice the damage (28 vs 14.5), and not taking up your concentration. I don't know what you mean by "cannot be resisted." It's Wisdom save for half, and the damage type is either radiant or necrotic, so you can "resist" either by making your wisdom save or by being a barbearian/Empty Body monk or both. (Or by hitting the cleric and breaking his concentration, which can't happen with Fireball. It is possible to cast Spirit Guardians and get zero damage out of it, if someone outside the spell's area breaks your concentration before anyone within the area takes a turn.)

If Spirit Guardians is brokenly good at your table it must be something about your playstyle. In the general case it is okay but not better than e.g. Hypnotic Pattern, except against vampires where it rocks because radiant shuts down their regeneration.

 

[chriton227]

True. But, the issue is more for a single BBEG or a few lieutenants.

It is even more important to realize that once PCs get to say level 5, the PC casting Faerie Fire can cast it round after round after round if the foe he wants to hit keeps saving. Sooner or later, the foe will almost always fail the save. When fighting a Dragon or a Beholder or a Lich, the super increase in damage is worth casting it multiple rounds in a row until it sticks (or cast by multiple PCs until it sticks).

And the odds of it working against most foes on the first cast is usually in the 50% to 70% range. Saving is the exception instead of the rule.

Sure, it might not work right away. But when it does, it is incredibly powerful. The number of resources required by a party not using that spell vs. one using that spell is significantly greater for the same level of threats.

One issue I haven't seen mentioned with the idea of spamming FF is that when you recast it, the effect ends on anyone who failed the save against an earlier casting. So if there are three targets that you really want to put FF on, you would need all three to fail the save against the same casting. That can raise some interesting tactical decisions, for example if a boss makes the save but two lieutenants and a number of mooks fail the save, do you risk recasting to affect the boss knowing that it may cause the effect to end on the lieutenants and/or the mooks?