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Survival tips for Green Star Adepts

Ymdar

Explorer
I always like to run PrCs considered to be weak compared to others like my current air Elemental Savant who lives happily while every PC in the party died at least twice.
Since that campaign is soon coming to an end I layed my eyes on the Green Star Adept. And I was puzzled.
We always create PCs using the point buy system (30 pts). Since GSA loses all Con at 10th level how do you think I should organise my points not to die at low levels but not to lose many starting ability points by putting too much on Con?
I was thinking Con 12 and maybe an Improved toughness feat.

A completely unrelated question: Does a ring of sustenance allow a wizard to prepare spells every two hours? (I don't allow that in my own game but can't seem to persuade the other DM in the group)
 

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moritheil

First Post
Ymdar said:
A completely unrelated question: Does a ring of sustenance allow a wizard to prepare spells every two hours? (I don't allow that in my own game but can't seem to persuade the other DM in the group)

No. The rules say in several places that even if you don't really need sleep (i.e. you are an elf or a construct) you still must do nothing for 8 hours to regain spells.
 

szilard

First Post
The big question is what will your build going into GSA be?

Warmage might be good... particularly since GSAs don't lose caster levels (you won't have the highest level artillery spells, but the ones you have will be effective)... and the GSA's benefits would compensate for the Warmage's primary weakness.

Duskblade would work OK, as would (of all things) Bard. Hexblade would be an odd, but possibly interesting, choice.

-Stuart
 

UltimaGabe

First Post
moritheil said:
No. The rules say in several places that even if you don't really need sleep (i.e. you are an elf or a construct) you still must do nothing for 8 hours to regain spells.

Also, any spells you've cast in the last 8 hours can't be regained. So at the absolute least, arcane casters can only prepare spells every eight hours minimum. They've got it better than divine casters though- they only get to prepare their spells once per day. They don't need sleep or rest to do it, though.
 

Bad Paper

First Post
Ymdar said:
Since GSA loses all Con at 10th level how do you think I should organise my points not to die at low levels but not to lose many starting ability points by putting too much on Con?
I was thinking Con 12 and maybe an Improved toughness feat.
I wouldn't sweat it. 10th level is really far down the road, especially if you don't run all the way through GSA at once. (Where are you going to find that much kryptonite?)

Your choice of Con 12 and IT is fine. I might even settle for Con 10. Think about Great Fortitude. Pick up a rat familiar. Pump Dex so you never get hit in the first place.
 

eamon

Explorer
There exists an argument which notes that the ring of sustenance provides the full benefit of 8 hours of sleep - and 8 hours of sleep are enough to allow you to prepare spells.

However, note that even if you allow it, you still can't reuse daily spell slots more than once per day not just rest period, and you in any case can't even fill spell slots used in the last 8 hours (those count against both days, so to speak).

So, even if it's allowed to suffice for purposes of spell preparation, there's ample reason to disallow the real issue of being able to "sleep" several times a day and get a full days allotment multiple times. If it ever comes up, I'm just going to avoid problems using that argument, and don't see a problem with a wizard needing less sleep per se so long as the basic per day limitations still hold.
 
Last edited:

moritheil

First Post
eamon said:
There exists and argument which notes that the ring of sustenance provides the full benefit of 8 hours of sleep - and 8 hours of sleep are enough to allow you to prepare spells.

The word full doesn't occur in the rules text: " . . . its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep."

Still, as eamon pointed out, some people will argue anything. When that occurs it may be best for you to say "No, in my interpretation as DM, it does not allow this."
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
Ymdar said:
A completely unrelated question: Does a ring of sustenance allow a wizard to prepare spells every two hours? (I don't allow that in my own game but can't seem to persuade the other DM in the group)

PHB p15: "Elves do not sleep, as members of the other common races do. Instead, an elf meditates in a deep trance for 4 hours a day. An elf resting in this fashion receives the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep."

PHB p178: "If a character does not need to sleep for some reason, she still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells. For example, elf wizards need 8 hours of rest to clear their minds, even though they need only 4 hours of trance to refresh their bodies. Thus, an elf wizard could trance for 4 hours and rest for 4 hours, then prepare spells."

So, we can see that a/ 4 hours of trance provides the same benefit as 8 hours' sleep, and b/ 4 hours of trance does not allow a wizard to prepare spells.

Therefore, the benefit of 8 hours of sleep does not include the ability to prepare spells.

The description of the ring states "... its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep."

As we've just shown that the benefit of 8 hours of sleep does not include the ability to prepare spells, someone wearing a Ring of Sustenance who sleeps for 2 hours does not gain the ability to prepare spells, and must therefore have another 6 hours of restful calm.

-Hyp.
 

Slaved

First Post
Why not go all the way?

Put your lowest ability score into Constitution and pour all of your focus into defense. Take two levels of Monk and proceed into Sorcerer with the Ascetic Mage or see if your Dungeon Master will allow you to take Swordsage with the Monk variant. Be small size and pick up feats, skills, and skill tricks to help you avoid being a target. Pick up Improved Toughness because you have been trying to be tougher your entire life but just have not been able to pull it off very well due to physical limitations.

And then find your first piece of Starmetal and form your plan to finally become the toughest creature there is.........

You could even toss in some Jade Pheonix Mage from the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords if the Dungeon Master agrees to the Swordsage variant.
 

Slaved

First Post
The Green Star Adept gets an ability at first level that allows it to add its class level to its caster level in one Arcane Casting Class. Does this mean that at level 10 in the class the character has +5 Class Levels for casting in an Arcane Casting Class which raises caster level plus an additional +10 Caster Level?
 

moritheil

First Post
Slaved said:
The Green Star Adept gets an ability at first level that allows it to add its class level to its caster level in one Arcane Casting Class. Does this mean that at level 10 in the class the character has +5 Class Levels for casting in an Arcane Casting Class which raises caster level plus an additional +10 Caster Level?

Where's the +10 caster level coming from?
 

szilard

First Post
Slaved said:
The Green Star Adept gets an ability at first level that allows it to add its class level to its caster level in one Arcane Casting Class. Does this mean that at level 10 in the class the character has +5 Class Levels for casting in an Arcane Casting Class which raises caster level plus an additional +10 Caster Level?

Over 10 levels, the Green Star Adept gets:

+10 to caster level
+5 levels worth of spells known/per day (not including caster level)

-Stuart
 

Ymdar

Explorer
Thanks for the advice guys! Now I'm having a valid argument against the ring of sustenance (which had balance issues at the least)


As for the Green Star Adept, since usually we have the needed stuff available in our campaigns, I think I'll try Fighter 3 (for more hit points)/ Wizard (or sorcerer) 2 and then progress to GSA.
And pray not to get hit too often. :D
 

moritheil

First Post
szilard said:
Over 10 levels, the Green Star Adept gets:

+10 to caster level
+5 levels worth of spells known/per day (not including caster level)

-Stuart

Then I suppose it gives you a net improvement of 5 to caster level, at the cost of not having access to higher spells.
 

Slaved

First Post
szilard said:
Over 10 levels, the Green Star Adept gets:

+10 to caster level
+5 levels worth of spells known/per day (not including caster level)

-Stuart

From what I recall there is no limiter in the spells known/per day section to assume this.

Ymdar said:
As for the Green Star Adept, since usually we have the needed stuff available in our campaigns, I think I'll try Fighter 3 (for more hit points)/ Wizard (or sorcerer) 2 and then progress to GSA.
And pray not to get hit too often.

Fighter 3?? Why not a class with a d12 hit die or some better evasive abilities? Or just stop at Fighter 2!
 

Ymdar

Explorer
I want to finish the PrC at the earliest levels possible. So I have to start the PrC at the earliest level possible (5). Since I need BAB +4 to get into the PrC, and want (the possible) maximum caster level I have to take three levels of a class that has 1/1 BAB and good hit die.
Hmm... maybe I should take knight or something similar?
 


rowport

First Post
Ymdar said:
I want to finish the PrC at the earliest levels possible. So I have to start the PrC at the earliest level possible (5). Since I need BAB +4 to get into the PrC, and want (the possible) maximum caster level I have to take three levels of a class that has 1/1 BAB and good hit die.
Hmm... maybe I should take knight or something similar?
If you were doing X3/Wizard2/GSA10 your INT will be high, so maybe consider Swashbuckler. That would give you Insightful Strike for a melee damage boost.
 


terror

Villager
I always like to run PrCs considered to be weak compared to others like my current air Elemental Savant who lives happily while every PC in the party died at least twice.
Since that campaign is soon coming to an end I layed my eyes on the Green Star Adept. And I was puzzled.
We always create PCs using the point buy system (30 pts). Since GSA loses all Con at 10th level how do you think I should organise my points not to die at low levels but not to lose many starting ability points by putting too much on Con?
I was thinking Con 12 and maybe an Improved toughness feat.

A completely unrelated question: Does a ring of sustenance allow a wizard to prepare spells every two hours? (I don't allow that in my own game but can't seem to persuade the other DM in the group)

Fey Heritage, then beauty's bounty at level ONE.

Then improved toughness aswell.

Dump all con.

Oh naughty word this is an old post.
 

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