Surviving low-level old school D&D

[Remathilis]

It is not the game you play - it is how you play it. Always has been that way. Always will be.

Yes and no.

If the purpose of beer is to get drunk, it doesn't matter what beer you drink as long as you're sufficiently hammered at the end of it. However, most people have specific favorite beers that suit their pallet in terms of taste, color, aroma, and smoothness. (And, of course, some don't use beer to get drunk, they prefer wine or harder stuff).

Point is, yes as long as you're having fun it doesn't matter if its OD&D, AD&D 1e, 3.5 or whatever. However, some people prefer the mix of certain brews to others; don't give me a Bud Light when I ordered a Corona.

 

[ExploderWizard]

What the PC's (and Kobolds) believe to be a misplaced trap is primarily a Kobold-Population-Control mechanism. It also has a hidden extra benefit: The average Kobold Int used to be 6...

Hahaha!! Now I see how Tucker's kobolds developed. Several generations later and you have some badass kobold commandos.

 

[Korgoth]

Hahaha!! Now I see how Tucker's kobolds developed. Several generations later and you have some badass kobold commandos.

Actually, the entire dungeon is just a big "danger room" for producing the Uberkobold.

 

[rogueattorney]

My first pc, a thief, died fighting the ogre in Keep on the Borderlands. Since the moment Pickpocket (I had just seen Oliver Twist) got squished, I've never stopped loving B/X D&D.

I've found strength in numbers to be one of the keys of survival. Getting some henchmen/hirelings/goons/Charmed bugbears to tag along always helps. Note, I don't mean redshirts. Getting your cronies killed is a good way to stop being able to find cronies. I'd rather have a 4th level henchman who's been with me for years than have to hire a newbie every time out anyway.

Buy armor. Plate mail with a club is always better than lightly armored with a ton of great weapons.

Ranged weapons.

Using choke points, doors, and other obstacles to your advantage such that you don't get swarmed under by the hordes.

Talking to the beasties is always good. Try to get information from them. Try to get them on your side. Use the orcs against the goblins, etc. Charisma is not a dump stat, use those reaction charts to your advantage. If you don't have to fight the monster, don't.

Do the tasks your class was designed to do. Fighters fight. They don't poke around at ancient altars or try to open treasure chests. That's a good way to get turned into a chicken, dissolved into goo, or otherwise come to an untimely end. Same thing, but reversed for magic-users and thieves.

Always keep your eyes on the prize. The way btb xp works in O(A)D&D, hacking your way through small critters simply isn't worth it. You're looking for the big haul of treasure that will bump you up to 2nd level. Use whatever guile you have at your disposal to locate the loot, grab it, and get out as quickly as possible.

O(A)D&D isn't about being a hero, it's about becoming a hero. And you don't become a hero until 4th level. Keep your head down and eyes open until then.

 

[Bullgrit]

Several folks have mentioned in this thread that PCs should use specific strategies to avoid death in old-school D&D combat at first level.

"Using choke points, doors, and other obstacles to your advantage such that you don't get swarmed under by the hordes." is just the latest.

Although it's a good concept, death at 1st level in old school D&D can come even when Special Forces tactics are used. I mean, when one hit could kill a fighter (not even a crit, or max damage, just a normal, average hit) there was no sure-fire safe tactic. Hell, winning initiative was a 50/50 chance.

All the "listen at the door," "draw them out," "throw flaming oil," etc. advice sounds wise (and smart alec), it doesn't ensure survival.

For instance, what did Frederick do wrong in this example of BD&D combat:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/250815-example-basic-d-d-combat.html

What did Morgan do right that kept her alive? Or was it all mostly luck that made the difference for them?

Bullgrit

 

[Lanefan]

Several folks have mentioned in this thread that PCs should use specific strategies to avoid death in old-school D&D combat at first level.

"Avoid death" is probably too strong a term.

"Reduce the odds of death" is more what you're looking for.

When a party of 1st-levels marches into a dungeon, it's a safe bet they're not all coming out. But those that do come out have taken the first step* to a heroic future...

* - further steps not guaranteed.

Lan-"they went into the valley together, and one by one they never came out"-efan

 

[Herschel]

What was your experience with old-school low levels? Can you believe a tale of novice PCs surviving on their first adventure (without “help”)?

Bullgrit

Max HP at First Level cured the early mortality problem most of the time.

 

[rogueattorney]

Max HP at First Level cured the early mortality problem most of the time.

I see this said a lot, but the math doesn't bear this out.

A first level character with Plate and Shield, fighting low level monsters (need a 17 to hit - or 20% chance), who do 3.5 points of damage per hit, basically do .7 points of damage a round averaged over a long term.

A character with 5 hit points thus survives on average just over 7 combat rounds, while a maxed-out character with 8 hit points lasts just under 11 1/2 combat rounds.

In my experience, this difference has been too little to notice over the long
term. Survival at low levels, in my experience, is much more tied to whether the character can afford to purchase plate mail at the start...

A first level character with Chain and Shield, fighting the same monsters (who now hit 30% of the time and thus do 1.05 points of damage a round) only last 7.6 rounds at max hit points, or a little less than half a round longer than the 5 hp character with Plate and Shield. (The 5 hp character lasts about 4 1/2 rounds.)

It's curious that I often see people give out max hit points at first level while simultaneously making plate armor more expensive.

That's one of my few problems with the Labyrinth Lord clone of B/X. While giving clerics 1st level spells (which, assuming that spell is CLW, essentially gives one character an average of 4.5 additional hit points per session), it makes plate armor too expensive for first level characters. In the long term, that's going to make 1st level play much more deadly, even with the added cleric spell.

 

[Harlekin]

I see this said a lot, but the math doesn't bear this out.

A first level character with Plate and Shield, fighting low level monsters (need a 17 to hit - or 20% chance), who do 3.5 points of damage per hit, basically do .7 points of damage a round averaged over a long term.

A character with 5 hit points thus survives on average just over 7 combat rounds, while a maxed-out character with 8 hit points lasts just under 11 1/2 combat rounds.

In my experience, this difference has been too little to notice over the long
term. Survival at low levels, in my experience, is much more tied to whether the character can afford to purchase plate mail at the start...

A first level character with Chain and Shield, fighting the same monsters (who now hit 30% of the time and thus do 1.05 points of damage a round) only last 7.6 rounds at max hit points, or a little less than half a round longer than the 5 hp character with Plate and Shield. (The 5 hp character lasts about 4 1/2 rounds.)

It's curious that I often see people give out max hit points at first level while simultaneously making plate armor more expensive.

That's one of my few problems with the Labyrinth Lord clone of B/X. While giving clerics 1st level spells (which, assuming that spell is CLW, essentially gives one character an average of 4.5 additional hit points per session), it makes plate armor too expensive for first level characters. In the long term, that's going to make 1st level play much more deadly, even with the added cleric spell.

Looking at the mean damage is probably not all that useful here. The variance is way to big to have the law of large numbers take over.

If I have 8hp and each attack does 1d6 hp, i know that the first hit will not kill me and I can play accordingly. Once i am down to 4, I know that the next hit has 50% chance of killing me, and it is time to go home and rest. So my choices matter. If I start out with 3 hp, all I am trusting on is the luck of the die roll. I cannot adjust my strategy after the first hit, as I likely am dead.

 

[rogueattorney]

For instance, what did Frederick do wrong in this example of BD&D combat:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/250815-example-basic-d-d-combat.html

What did Morgan do right that kept her alive? Or was it all mostly luck that made the difference for them?

It was four first or second level pcs against 12 hobgoblins. Even with a Sleep spell on deck, that's a tough fight. A pc is going to die in that fight. If the dice go poorly, all the pcs might die in that fight. What the party did wrong is that when the hobgoblins told the pcs to "go away" (the DM gave the players a chance to avoid the fight) the pcs didn't say "ok" and walk out of the room. If they later find out that what they're looking for is through that room, they can always go back. Maybe with some more muscle, better magic, or otherwise better prepared for the fight.

What purpose did that fight serve? What treasure were the hobbos guarding? What xp was to be gained that made it worth the risk of certain death for at least one pc to engage in that fight?


While the hobbos do tell the pcs where there treasure is after they surrender, the players had no way knowing they'd do that prior to getting into the fight, and the players (and we, because the narrative ends) have no way of knowing whether the hobbos told the truth, whether the treasure was substantial enough to be worth the Frederik's death, whether it's guarded beyond the poison needle trap, or whether the pcs ever actually acquire it.