Suspension of Disbelief stretched to the breaking point in the World of Darkness

[Crothian]

Indeed not. But there is a big difference between a mediaeval windmill, or even 19th-Century canal-locks and the kind of engines and bearings that could move around whole sections of a gigantic underground complex.

Again, not plausiable with normal humans. But with the vast resources and intelligence elder vampires can have it then becomes more realistic to me. About as realistic as said vampires

 

[Numion]

Indeed not. But there is a big difference between a mediaeval windmill, or even 19th-Century canal-locks and the kind of engines and bearings that could move around whole sections of a gigantic underground complex. I'm not quite clear on how big and heavy and hewn-from-solid-rock the moving parts in this complex are. If they are just like elevators and modest-sized rooms on turntables and tracks they could have been built with 1850s technology. If they are 100-foot sections of rock-hewn complex I doubt that we could slide or turn them even now. It is hard enough to build a house that stands still without cracking.

That's what I meant. Moving large amounts of stuff couldn't be done without breaking them into manageable pieces in 'ye olden days'. Nowadays humans are capable of moving quite heavy stuff - but it's not easy. It requires shock absorbers, engines, (usually) counterweights, etc .. and all of that stuff would require for the worlds largest structure a veritable army of maintenance personnel. (moderate sized power plants have thousands of repair actions within a year. The vampire zoo with a large number of engines, hydraulic pumps, pistons, whatever, to move the rooms .. would have much more).

Again, stuff like that is easily handwaved in D&D. But in context of the Vampire, it just makes zero sense. If vampires have nothing to fear from humanity, it's just another superhero game. Just add angst!

 

[Ion]

The GM sounds like she’s

Young (emotionally if not mentally or physically)
Bright
Creative
A bit under socialized.
A bit detached from reality.

Think about it like this: In ten years, if this person gets their emotions under control, gets some real world experience and can stop yelling at people (i.e. probably gets over the fact that some of her self estimee is attached to the fact that she feels she’s smarter than others) she’ll be a brilliant DM.

What she needs, really, from you, is patience.
People who are defensive (especially the puzzlemaker type who spend hours thinking things through and are trying to be internally consistent) aren’t going to react well to overt criticism.

In order to be patient you are going to have to detach yourself from the situation a bit.
Don’t take the game as seriously as you are. If your characters die, or you spend an hour on a puzzle just relax and yuk it up a bit.

When she throws something in weird, in character, have your character make a single, in character crack about something (like a one liner in a movie) and move on.
If the puzzles get too tough just stop and have fun roleplaying with your friends in the room.

I think this is the best advice I've seen in a thread like this. Well done!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

The advice to stay with it and have fun might be a good one, but I don't quite see it happening, as I see a couple of problems with it:

Sure, having fun is part of the attitude, but as soon as the attitude required can only be described as "masochistic", it's not in the best interests of anyone to just let it go on. Unless you're masochistic to begin with. In that case: Knock yourself out! That DM will be a wellspring of joy for you: "Beat me! Railroad me! GIVE ME BAD HOUSERULES!!!!"

She might turn into a great DM in ten years, but then again, she might think "hm.. these guys keep coming for more, so I must be doing something right." If you want to continue gaming, and maybe watch her become a great DM, by all means tell her that you aren't having any fun. Point out the parts she has handled well (if any), but if you won't point out that being reduced to sidekicks in a story isn't your cup of tea, she might never know. Patience is nice. Advice is better. Of course, you have to handle this tactfully. It's not allright to take the old "everyone who's a good DM take a step forward WHO TOLD YOU TO MOVE?!?" approach. But not saying anything can't be good, either.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

The GM sounds like she’s

Young (emotionally if not mentally or physically)
Bright
Creative
A bit under socialized.
A bit detached from reality.

Think about it like this: In ten years, if this person gets their emotions under control, gets some real world experience and can stop yelling at people (i.e. probably gets over the fact that some of her self estimee is attached to the fact that she feels she’s smarter than others) she’ll be a brilliant DM.

What she needs, really, from you, is patience.
People who are defensive (especially the puzzlemaker type who spend hours thinking things through and are trying to be internally consistent) aren’t going to react well to overt criticism.

In order to be patient you are going to have to detach yourself from the situation a bit.
Don’t take the game as seriously as you are. If your characters die, or you spend an hour on a puzzle just relax and yuk it up a bit.

When she throws something in weird, in character, have your character make a single, in character crack about something (like a one liner in a movie) and move on.
If the puzzles get too tough just stop and have fun roleplaying with your friends in the room.

I agree here.

But I don't think hand-holding juveniles is everybody's cup of tea. So if you can't do it with good grace, you owe the universe and yourself to just stop playing the game.

Making somebody feel bad for what they think is creative genius is just a good way to make somebody feel bad. You don't have a right to a good Storyteller, but you do have the choice to be an adult about the situation.

You can also do a few things like buy the DMGII for her, Law's Laws, DMing for Dummies, and other informative products and give them as gifts. Don't say why, don't be mean ... I figure in a few years she'll either "get it" and look back on this game with chagrin ... or she won't and she'll always "be that way". At any rate, there's no real need for ANYBODY to be miserable. It's all in your court.

-fje