Suspension of Disbelief

[painandgreed]

Pretty much any world threatening situation used as a plot device especially when it can only be resolved by our party of low to mid level characters while high level NPCs sit by and do nothing.

 

[Desdichado]

Wow. Reading some of the answers in this thread, I wonder, why the hell do you even play RPGs?

What do you mean?

 

[Rel]

Deus Ex Machinas used cleverly and sparingly are just fine. Too often however, they are used waaaay too often. Most of the time I've seen them played it was to show off the DM's favorite character (either from books or from their own creation) or to bail the party out of an encounter that was too tough to begin with.

Kane

To me the difference between a dramatic rescue and a crappy Deus Ex Machina is foreshadowing. When Gandalf says, "Look for me at sunrise on the fifth day." (or whatever the exact quote was) and then he shows up at the aforementioned critical moment with the cavalry then it's fine. When Elminster teleports in, unannounced, from nowhere and one-punches the Red Dragon that is about to perform a TPK on the party, it sucks.

 

[Kanegrundar]

To me the difference between a dramatic rescue and a crappy Deus Ex Machina is foreshadowing. When Gandalf says, "Look for me at sunrise on the fifth day." (or whatever the exact quote was) and then he shows up at the aforementioned critical moment with the cavalry then it's fine. When Elminster teleports in, unannounced, from nowhere and one-punches the Red Dragon that is about to perform a TPK on the party, it sucks.

Well said. Too bad very few DM's know how to use them effectively. (At least in my experience. )

Kane

 

[Quasqueton]

What do you mean?

Well...

There are certain spells that just make me go huh. Fireball for one. You just cast a huge fire on someone and nothing else burns. Or the fact that some spells have an evil descriptor like inflict pain but it is okay to fireball or disengrate someone. Things like that just make me realize hey its a GAME.

1. Hunkered names.

3. Other players at the table knowing jack about the world or their place in it.

4. Dungeons

5. Magic factories.

6. Involved Astronomy.... i.e. A world with two moon or two suns, a funky calendar with the names of the days and months included (looks good on paper and in fiction but at the gaming table everybody stops suddenly and someone says "Pikenuartday.... is that like Friday?")

7. Worlds with a richly detailed history streching back longer than 3,000-4,000 years that still haven't developed past a hodge-podge of dark ages to renissance level technology or social conventions.

(I don't know what "hunkered names" means.)

What kills the suspension of disbelief for me?:
-- Inane names.
-- Half dragon-celestial-barbarians-ninjas in dungeonpunk garb.
-- Imbecile economics ala traditionnal D&D.
-- Mimic, Grell, Yrtak, Gelatinous cube, Beholder, and other such monsters.
-- Disneyland D&D instead of true sword & sorcery.

For me its usually silly names, magic item shoppes and magic as technology.

If anything, the worst possible thing to kill the mood is directly referencing to the rules. As difficult as that may sound...having a player call out "C'mon use your best 8th level spell to buff me and I'll use my +3 Mithril sword to kill that multi-templated beholder!" is just annoying.

When "starving and desperate" thieves will fight an known adventuring party to the death while there are much softer and richer targets all around them in the city. Never mind that when given the opportunity to surrender or run away when obviously outclassed, they still shoose to fight to the death.

I particularly despise using relatively ordinary English personal names (i.e. Jason, Harold, Frederick) for characters in a non-Earth fantasy setting. It's okay in a one-shot or humorous game, but in a long-term serious campaign it just becomes a constant irritation to me like a blister in my brain.

I have a GM whom I otherwise really admire and enjoy playing with, who insists on making all his NPCs have extreme secret motivations that the PCs can never understand. No one is ever what they seem.

I really dislike having all NPC representatives of any race behave in a stereotypical manner. Halflings do not all have to be obsessed with food. Dwarves do not all have to be humorless gold-grubbers. Certainly there are racial traits, but members of a particular race don't have to be clones of each other.

Duex ex Machina

Clones/Doppelgangers

Exotic Posions

Ancient Evils silently waiting for PCs.

Pretty much any world threatening situation used as a plot device especially when it can only be resolved by our party of low to mid level characters while high level NPCs sit by and do nothing.

Quasqueton

 

[Desdichado]

Well...

(I don't know what "hunkered names" means.)

Quasqueton

Was that an answer to my question? I understand even less now then when I asked it originally.

 

[fusangite]

Was that an answer to my question? I understand even less now then when I asked it originally.

I think Quaesetron is saying that the things some people say ruin their suspension of disbelief are, for him, what makes D&D D&D. And I'm kind of in agreement with him, as far as my tastes go; but many things that are part of 80% of people's RPG experiences ruin D&D for me. So I'm hardly one to talk.

 

[Quasqueton]

I think [Quasqueton] is saying that the things some people say ruin their suspension of disbelief are, for him, what makes D&D D&D.

Yeah, pretty much.

Plus, I don't know that I go into an RPG with a suspension of disbelief anyway. I mean, the 6-foot 250-pound guy over there is playing a 3' halfling; the skinny teenager over there is playing a stout and gruff dwarf warrior; the bearded guy between them is playing a female elf rogue. If your "immersion" in the game is hindered by the standard tropes and genre elements of D&D, why play the game?

Quasqueton

 

[Desdichado]

I think Quaesetron is saying that the things some people say ruin their suspension of disbelief are, for him, what makes D&D D&D. And I'm kind of in agreement with him, as far as my tastes go; but many things that are part of 80% of people's RPG experiences ruin D&D for me. So I'm hardly one to talk.

I wondered if that wasn't what he meant, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt since that would have been such a sheltered, provincial and frankly ignorant statement to make. Not only did he not state D&D, but he stated RPGs, and many (in fact most) other RPGs have a very different MO from D&D, and so obviously will focus on different things. And clearly not everyone plays D&D in an old-fashioned nonsensical "Gygaxian" style either--and as a longtime and fairly active poster here, I know he knows otherwise; I've seen him post in all kinds of threads that--if he's read--he would know that people play in ways that encourage and support suspension of disbelief rather than abuse it. So, like I said, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, because if that's what he meant, he was merely trolling.

If his comment meant something more along the lines of "many of those things are too difficult/complex/whatever to accurately try to model within the constraints of RPGs" that was perhaps a lead-off into an interesting discussion; how can RPG playstyle enourage and support suspension of disbelief, taking some specific examples of what he thought was difficult to do within the confines of the medium, and talking about strategies to mitigate those problems.

And even if that's not what he meant and he was just trolling, I still think that'd be an interesting direction to take this thread. Rather than just a big-ole list of complaints about things that abuse suspension of disbelief, what are some strategies to work around them?

 

[Quasqueton]

I wondered if that wasn't what he meant, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt since that would have been such a sheltered, provincial and frankly ignorant statement to make. Not only did he not state D&D, but he stated RPGs, and many (in fact most) other RPGs have a very different MO from D&D, and so obviously will focus on different things. And clearly not everyone plays D&D in an old-fashioned nonsensical "Gygaxian" style either--and as a longtime and fairly active poster here, I know he knows otherwise; I've seen him post in all kinds of threads that--if he's read--he would know that people play in ways that encourage and support suspension of disbelief rather than abuse it. So, like I said, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, because if that's what he meant, he was merely trolling.

I don't think my comment was in any way even remotely trollish. Maybe I should have used the term "D&D" specifically, instead of the generic "RPG". I hate the Gygaxian-style of gaming -- I grew out of that within a couple years of playing.

I started out this response trying to address each and every one of the complaints I quoted, but it's just too long to complete.

My point was that many of the complaints sounded like someone complaining that chase scenes, attractive leading women, double-crossed plots, and automatic weapons ruins the enjoyment of a movie.

I mean, really, if dungeons, or the mention of a "+3 sword", or enemies fighting to the death, or ancient evils, or stereotypical demi-humans ruins someone's SoD, I wonder why they play the game at all.

Quasqueton