Swordmages and Spellscarred, and their nasty implement woes.

[DracoSuave]

Submitted to CS:

I have a trio of questions involving the classes Swordmage and Spellscarred presented in the FRPG.

1) There are a number of powers in the Swordmage list that are Implement keyworded. They use a light or heavy blade as their implement, but light or heavy blades are considered accessories for Weapon keyword powers normally. Now I know you don't get the proficiency bonus on Implement powers, but what about properties of the weapon? Do you get the high-crit feature of a weapon on Implement powers? What about Implement powers that have [W] damage notations? What about Weapon powers that don't? What about magical properties of weapons, like a power that deals extra damage on a hit?

2) What about feats that give you bonuses to attacks or alterations to rules using light blades or heavy blades (Nimble Blade, Weapon Focus, Blade Opportunist, Heavy Blade Opportunity, Scimitar Dance) or for weapons with multiple types, feats like Hammer Rhythm?

3) There are multiple powers in the Spellscarred class that have the Implement keyword. What are the implements that a Spellscarred uses for their powers? There are none listed in the FRPG that I can tell.

Place your bets!

 

[Kordeth]

Place your bets!

1) You get exactly what it says you get in the swordmage's Implement writeup: Enhancement bonus to attack and damage, and any extra damage granted by a property. No feats, class features, racial abilities, or anything else. Whether the damage is [W] or fixed doesn't matter, only the power's keyword. If it's a Weapon attack, it gets all the weapon bonuses of a weapon attack. If it's an Implement attack, it just gets the implement bonuses.

2) It's been pretty well established from the Wizard of the Spiral Tower that weapon-based feats only apply to attacks with a weapon, not an implement, and even though a weapon and an implement mighty be the same object, they aren't the same thing game rules-wise.

3) Good question. That appears to be an oversight.

 

[DracoSuave]

The problem is that if the Implement power only inherits implement-based stuff from the accessory, then [W] does not exist. That's a -weapon- trait.

 

[ppaladin123]

1) You get exactly what it says you get in the swordmage's Implement writeup: Enhancement bonus to attack and damage, and any extra damage granted by a property. No feats, class features, racial abilities, or anything else. Whether the damage is [W] or fixed doesn't matter, only the power's keyword. If it's a Weapon attack, it gets all the weapon bonuses of a weapon attack. If it's an Implement attack, it just gets the implement bonuses.

2) It's been pretty well established from the Wizard of the Spiral Tower that weapon-based feats only apply to attacks with a weapon, not an implement, and even though a weapon and an implement mighty be the same object, they aren't the same thing game rules-wise.

3) Good question. That appears to be an oversight.

Since spell-scarred is meant to be a multi-class open to characters from all classes, my guess is that the official answer will be, "use whatever implement your main class is proficient in."

 

[DracoSuave]

Given the Str/Dex/Con based powers that aren't Weapon don't have -any- accessory keyword, I'm inclined to agree.

That said... it IS an oversight.

 

[Derulbaskul]

I don't understand why you're submitting the questions to CS. Is it just to poke fun at the inevitably incorrect answer? I think the replies above are as accurate as it is possible to get.

 

[Nifft]

Weapons-as-implements get:
- Enhancement
- Critical
- Property (if applicable)

Applicable property example: "When you hit with a power that has the ... keyword, ..."
Non-applicable property example: "When you hit with a melee attack, ..."


Weapons-as-implements do not get:
- Proficiency bonus to attacks
- Damage bonuses due to weapon type


RAW ambiguous:
- Feats which modify critical hits based on weapon type. (IMHO these are intended to apply only to powers with the Weapon keyword.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[Caliban]

I don't understand why you're submitting the questions to CS. Is it just to poke fun at the inevitably incorrect answer? I think the replies above are as accurate as it is possible to get.

CS's track record with 4e has been much better than their track record with 3e stuff. They seem to have better access to R&D and have been better trained.

Based on the responses from them I've seen posted here at least.

 

[Nifft]

CS's track record with 4e has been much better than their track record with 3e stuff. They seem to have better access to R&D and have been better trained.

Coming from the CharOpt forum, where I have see them pasted with wild abandon, their record is still about 50/50 for a yes/no question.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mirtek]

Weapons-as-implements get:
- Enhancement
- Critical
- Property (if applicable)

What about a swordmage using a jagged weapon? Can he crit on 19-20 with implement powers?