"System Orphan" Looking for a Home

[innerdude]

Some of the background for this post can be found:

Here

and

Here


So, to get straight to the point--right now I feel like I'm an "RPG System Orphan."

Before 2008, I had never really actively played anything but D&D. I was a TSR/WotC disciple, D&D was the only system that mattered, and anything else was just a side show / diversion from the "main event."

(As a side note, I wasn't really an active player in the '90s, so the whole White Wolf movement kind of passed me by).

Then 4e happened.

After much angst, hand-wringing, and generally making an arse of myself amongst the 4e circle of gamers, I finally made peace with the fact that 4e wasn't for me, that people who enjoy 4e aren't heretics, they just have different ideas about what makes their gaming fun, and moved on (having Pathfinder show up on the scene a year after the 4e launch eased the pain considerably).

One other thing came of the 4e launch too: I began really exploring systems outside D&D for the first time, and in some ways, I'm extremely glad that I did.

But here's the problem: I've now seen too much, read too much, and explored too many other systems and mechanics, that I'm no longer truly happy with 3.x/Pathfinder.

But I haven't found anything to replace it.

My initial reaction for Pathfinder of, "It's 3.5, only better!" hasn't changed, just the level of ardor for it. Pathfinder IS better than 3.5 in a lot of ways--but the spine, the backbone and core assumptions of the ruleset, haven't changed.

Since my Pathfinder group dissolved back in December, I GM'd a short-lived Savage Worlds campaign, and am now playing in a GURPS campaign, but I don't really have a place I can call home.

There's nothing out there that inspires me. Nothing I want to go to an FLGS and plop down a hundred bucks on because it's that compelling.

And I find that fact a bit depressing.

I enjoy gaming. I enjoy every aspect of it, the socializing, learning the rules, exploring worlds and interacting with NPCs, and yes, even the combat, though it's definitely last on the list.

Yet there's nothing out there right now that I've found that I can throw my weight behind and say, "This. This is MY game. This is the game I want to master, and to show my friends."

Now obviously, you don't have to have that to play RPGs. I'm having a perfectly fun time playing GURPS right now (though I'd never in a million years want to GM it).

Yet having that game that you own, the one you make yours, makes a big difference to me in how passionate I am about playing and/or GM'ing.

I'm to the point now where I think I know what I want out of a system, but nothing I've seen has the right set of features. In my current situation (mid-30s, 2 kids, work) that if I'm going to err on one side of the spectrum that "rules lite" is the way to go.....but I can also admit that my time with Savage Worlds made me aware that there are some weaknesses for rules lite too. I like Savage Worlds, but would like just a few more things in it for consistency, and I'm worried that anything MORE "rules lite" would go in the wrong direction.

Anyway, any other "system orphans" out there like me? And how are you dealing with your orphaned state?

 

[pawsplay]

But here's the problem: I've seen too much, read too much, and explored too many other systems and mechanics, that I'm no longer truly happy with 3.x/Pathfinder.

"That's good. You have taken your first step into a larger world." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

But I haven't found anything to replace it.

And you won't. The gamer you were, and the games you loved, are effectively gone forever. And that's okay.

"You can not step into the same river twice, for there are other and other waters always flowing." -Heraclitus

If you go looking for a specific emotional feeling about a game, I can guarantee you will not find it. We find love when we stop looking; we gain happiness when we stop searching for it; that is the nature of attainment. Rather than looking for satisfaction in finding the right game, look for satisfaction in the journey.

You seem to have a good knack for identifying what about various games you like or don't like. You've graduated beyond fandom to being a commentator, even a designer. There is no perfect game, and there is no rush. Rather than rushing to repair a relationship with a game for which you hold nostalgia, I guess my question would be: What kind of game are you looking to run next?

 

[Ravilah]

I empathize with your plight. I was an exclusively 3.5 GM until 4e came out. Everybody in my gaming circle loved it, and all new gamers that have joined us since then have learned 4e instead of 3.5, so they won't play it either. I don't so much feel that I no longer get satisfaction from 3e; I just don't have a group that will play it with me.

I wasted a lot of breath on the edition wars (most of it in my own livingroom with my best friend and most active player), but it was quickly apparent that if I wanted to GM anything, it had to be 4e.

But thankfully, that is changing a bit. We have played some Deadlands recently, and we have also started playing GURPS. I haven't GMed with it yet, so I don't yet understand your aversion GMing with it.

But all in all, I think I know how you feel. I miss the days when there was just one game to talk about, one game to master, one game to invite people to play.

But I think pawsplay is right, some of this feeling is just the illusion of nostalgia.

 

[Stormonu]

Prior to 2008, I'd always complained that I couldn't get anyone in my group(s) to play much of anything except D&D (other than one Vampire campaign back in the 90's that lasted about a year).

Ever since my brush with 4E, I've been playing nothing but other games - and mostly enjoying it. Savage Worlds has really become my go-to game system for doing anything. The rest of my game group has really latched onto the World of Darkness games (I like it too, but not as much as Savage Worlds).

At the same time, I do sometimes miss playing "old faithful" - D&D. I've been trying to get a Pathfinder game going, but that has been a hit-and-miss sort of affair.

 

[Smoss]

My answer to that question ended up designing my own system...

But then I had worked on tons of house rules for 2e and 3e over the years, plus some totally new rules systems. SW Saga gave me the final inspiration I needed (That last piece of the puzzle). So when 4E came out i inspected it and found it lacking compared to what I had created - At least for me. I did steal a couple of 4e design choices that I liked though...

So the question is - Are you ready to become a system designer? That may be the only way to fit exactly what you are looking for.

Smoss

 

[nedjer]

"the spine, the backbone and core assumptions of the ruleset, haven't changed.

New spinal column: Treasure

 

[delericho]

I'm in a similar position - as a whole, 4e isn't for me, but it has sufficient genuine improvements that it leaves me really dissatisfied with 3e/Pathfinder.

Fortunately, I do like other games, so I'm not completely without a home. But D&D is, and always will be, my first love, so I need some version to play.

For the moment, I'm sticking with 3.5e. However, in the background I'm also working on my own version of the game, bringing together everything I like about D&D past and present (plus my own ideas). But it's doubtful if that will ever see the light of day.

I'm also quietly hoping an eventual 5e will fit me better. (Though I certainly feel it's too soon; and my gut feeling is also that it's unlikely to do so )

 

[nedjer]

Personal preferences aside. Can anyone explain the preference for 144 variations of largely the same game over 144 different games?

Is it like a 'divorce' thing, where you no longer belong if you leave the fold even briefly? Maybe it's the gameplay, but the D&D model in particular has been gutted so many times that internal organs can be swapped in and out at the drop of an edition?

 

[delericho]

I find house rules are generally more trouble than they're worth - even if the house rule is simpler than the official rule, I always find at least a few players just don't get it. So, it's generally better to stick with the less-good "official" rule.

That means that while I probably could house-rule 3e (or 4e, or whatever) to fit me perfectly, the mere act of house ruling would cause major headaches.

And so, I stick with "vanilla" 3e because it's the closest I currently have to my ideal game, despite its weaknesses. While I work on my own version (which is, admittedly, entirely house rules, but somehow doesn't have the same problems), while simultaneously hoping that WotC might produce a 5e that is better still.

 

[amerigoV]

I was almost an orphan, but then Savage Worlds came to my rescue. Since you already mentioned that one, I will not go further on that thread. If I were to try something else for fantasy, the Dragon Age RPG looks very good to me. I was hoping to play some at Origins this year, but I did not see a game on the list. It kinda reminds me of late 1e/early 2e with mana system instead of vancian magic (like a lot of us old farts did back then anyway).