Tactical Boardgame?

[FickleGM]

What's the point of starting a thread with the sole purpose of disparaging a number of people's opinions?

There's a way to have this sort of discussion, but this certainly isn't it.

So, do you think that 4e is, or isn't a boardgame?

 

[Wolfspider]

I'm dismissing it out of hand...yet, I don't feel misguided. In fact, this criticism has absolutely no bearing on my decision making regarding D&D. Interesting. I also don't feel that I'm being at all unfair. Weird.

Naw, that's not weird at all. I've met plenty of people who have that reaction about various things during my years as a comp instructor. Not usual at all.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! It's the end of the game as we know it!
It really is getting wearisome. [sigh...]

C'mon June!

 

[Bishmon]

So, do you think that 4e is, or isn't a boardgame?

1) I haven't formed an opinion about that.

2) That's irrelevant to my point.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Why not, "Customizing my mech" which is pretty much exactly the same thing, but, different game without the negative connotations.

OMG BATTELTEK WARGNAME!

I need to stay out of my own threads I'm usually the least productive poster.

 

[Wolfspider]

Possibly, but, judging from experience, can you really say that I'm that far off base?

I mean, come on, what does "tactical boardgame" really mean? Heck, in this thread we've got someone saying that because there's a battle map on the table all the time, we're playing a board game. It's started already. People will take it to mean whatever the heck they want, which is generally, "this playstyle isn't mine therefore it sucks" which is precisely what videogamey and anime meant.

Well, that's why we need threads that discuss these issues in depth. I think that the thread on the D&D anime art issue from a couple months back was actually pretty darn interesting and enlightening.

Let's talk about what a boardgame is and isn't, what tactical means, and so forth.

Personally, I don't think that D&D is a boardgame. Boardgames usually only have one kind of boad, which is reused over and over. D&D, when it does use a gridded map or whatnot, usually involves different environments every time. Of coures, Paizo does sell maps with specific environments on them, and WotC sells those tiles. Hmmm. Maybe it's not so clear cut....

 

[Plane Sailing]

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that you're upset because some people simply may not like the game.

Kindly don't speculate on other peoples motives or how they are feeling, because you really don't know anything about them.

The rest of your post is OK as it is expressing your opinions and observations - try to stick to that in future.

Thanks

 

[FickleGM]

1) I haven't formed an opinion about that.

2) That's irrelevant to my point.

1) Okay, just checking.

2) Oh, I was just wondering if I was going to disparage your opinion.

 

[AllisterH]

So, do you think that 4e is, or isn't a boardgame?

The difference is that in 4E, many more classes require the use of some sort of marking system.

In 1e/2E, you could play a non-spellcaster and not worry about placement other than general terms "Is he in melee range/ can I get into melee range with him" and since for non-spellcasters they focused on one enemy, this wasn't a problem to visualize.

Spellcasters though (especially the wizard), that's an entirely different story (how else can you drop a fireball so that it just catches enemy A whose fighting against your fighter buddy or bounce a lightning bolt down a corridor to hit multiple enemies WITHOUT the use of a mini/marker system?).

Of the 8 classes listed in the 2E PHB, I'd say that only the wizard (and to a smaller extent, the druid) REQUIRED using some form of visual placement system. Of the other classes, you pretty much could visualize the scenery from the DM's words and take actions based on that visualization (the thief might've been the only one depending on how stringent your DM was with the backstab requirement).

4E has changed this though in that I'd say of the 7 classes we've seen (the 6 from DDXP and the Rogue) I'd say the following definitely benefit players to have some form of mini system to visualize, Warlock, Rogue, Wizard.

The Fighter, Ranger and Paladin all can be done without the use of mini since they're abilities tend to either focus on 1 enemy or that themselves *stick* to one spot.

Cleric could go either way depending on the power chosen IMO.

That's probably why people think 4E is a boardgame in that this version of D&D, we have at least 3 classes that focus on either enemy placement or on their movement across the battlefield.

 

[Just Another User]

In some sense, I agree with you. But in another sense, people should have enough sense to realize that they're judging something about which they have incomplete knowledge. It's one thing to say "the 4E combat rules seem board-gamey to me", quite another to say "4E is a board game!" It's the second one that's unfair, not the first.

If people can praise something that very few have actually seen (this famous , or phantomatic, social resolution system) then other people can critique something that they have actually seen or played.

Is is almost funny when people critique something of the 4e and other people defend it basing their argument on something they have yet to see.

[before DDX]

"4e is too much of a boardgame/war game/videogame"
"how can you tell it? we have seen almost nothing of the game"

[after DDX]
"OK, now I've seen the game and still think it is too much etc.etc"
"Noooo, you have to see the game as a whole before to judge it"

[in a hypotetical future]
"ok, NOW I've seen the whole game and still think that..."
"nonsense, you must wait for the PHB2,3,4,5,6 and 7 and all the monster manuals, and the DMG guides and the reprint for 4e of all the FR sourcebooks before you can make an accurate judgement"

personally 4e seems to have a much larger component of tactical board game that what I like, no matter how good will be the RPG component. I thought the same of 3e but in 4e it seems more ingrained in the system and too hard to get rid of.