Taking 20 on Open Lock

[Sejs]

Heh, yes but that's if you -roll- a 1. If you're taking 20, you're not rolling anything. The idea of 1 automatically = some form of catastrophy means that with that logic you couldn't take 10 or 20 on anything ever, because the first thing you do is screw up egregiously and ruin any further attempts.

 

[LostSoul]

I think that Rogues are supposed to be able to get through most mundane locks. If you want to keep someone out, use any variety of magic spells.

I don't really see the problem. If you don't want the PCs to get through the door, don't put a door there. If it's a lack of drama or tension, that really has to do with the circumstances that are going on around the PCs - not the lock DC itself.

 

[Pax]

Heh, yes but that's if you -roll- a 1. If you're taking 20, you're not rolling anything. The idea of 1 automatically = some form of catastrophy means that with that logic you couldn't take 10 or 20 on anything ever, because the first thing you do is screw up egregiously and ruin any further attempts.

The concept behind Take 10 is not that you roll over and over until you get a 10 or better; it's that you take your time, and allow yourself to be satisfied with an average, non-extraordinary result.

However, the idea behind Take 20 is that, if you rolled often enough, you should EVENTUALLY roll a 20 (laws of probability and all). So the assumption there is that you do, in effect, roll every number, from 1 to 20, exactly once.

 

[HeavyG]

I think that Rogues are supposed to be able to get through most mundane locks. If you want to keep someone out, use any variety of magic spells.

I don't really see the problem. If you don't want the PCs to get through the door, don't put a door there. If it's a lack of drama or tension, that really has to do with the circumstances that are going on around the PCs - not the lock DC itself.

That is exactly right.

Locked doors are not about suspense (i.e whether or not the party can open the door), they are about how much time you're going to waste.

 

[cidak]

The next time your rogue take 20 opening a door. a buffed BBG with a lot of spells waits to attack. after this he open the doors in a round

Now that I like.

 

[silburnl]

Don't really see the problem... if there is no time pressure, the rouge SHOULD be able to pick just about any lock within her ability.

Now, if you need to open the door quick, then it becomes interesting (i.e. room is filling with water).

I'm with Thanee on this. Indeed as a DM I'm all for players Taking 10 and 20 as often as possible. Players who have Rogues should get their chance to do their thing of course but I'd rather spotlight them when the room is filling with water or the guard patrol will turn the corner in 30 seconds and narrate through the bulk of an adventure with mundane locks falling to their skill as a matter of course - they do this for a living so most of the time the locks will be not much challenge and therefore ultimately boring to most players*, save the precious game time for when there's something out of the ordinary.

Of course I'm the kind of heretic who idly plays around with the idea of extending Take 10 to the combat rules and playing D&D diceless, so what do I know?

Regards
Luke

* 'Most players' meaning, of course, that some players actually like searching for secret doors in every bloody square of the map. Assuming the rest of the group likes it this way (and you do to) then I have no problem with it. If was GMing though, it would bore me to tears and I'd quickly want to find something better to do.

 

[Khristos]

If a player abuses taking 20 just vary the reasons it cannot be done. Really there are many viable reasons the most simple is the concept of wandering monsters (if a wandering monster check would be due there is a mitigating circumstance that makes it a "time" issue so people dont just assume the door is trapped)

 

[krazykid]

Thread concenus?

So it seems that basically doors are not for keeping parties out (a rogue with take 20 will stroll through) but to slow them down and give you somewhere to store traps.

Oh and doors also make rogues feel important (when we all know that a mage with fireball can do anything better than anyone)

I can live with that.

 

[Li Shenron]

So it seems that basically doors are not for keeping parties out (a rogue with take 20 will stroll through) but to slow them down and give you somewhere to store traps.

Of course there are doors which open to a small treasure room or a shortcut, and doors which lead to the BBEG, and only the latter are supposed to be opened by every party.

 

[MerakSpielman]

The concept behind Take 10 is not that you roll over and over until you get a 10 or better; it's that you take your time, and allow yourself to be satisfied with an average, non-extraordinary result.

However, the idea behind Take 20 is that, if you rolled often enough, you should EVENTUALLY roll a 20 (laws of probability and all). So the assumption there is that you do, in effect, roll every number, from 1 to 20, exactly once.

I've often heard this argued but never backed up. If this is the way taking 20 works, it should be explicitly layed out as such in the rulebooks.

I've always assumed taking 20 just meant taking your time, making sure you didn't make any foolish mistakes, double checking, triple checking, and then triple checking again each step, etc... I thought taking 20 was making sure you took the time to do a job right, not trying it over and over again until you happen to get it right by sheer dumb luck.