Taking a Break

[Jedi_Solo]

I could quote the OP and it would be what I want to say almost word-for-word.

Yeah, that seems to be the topics that draw the most attention, and the ones that cause the most problems. I've pretty much gone back to lurking, as I get bored of watching people scream in each others faces and be rude.

My thought exactly and why I haven't posted much recently. I have nothing to add to either discussion (or at least nothing that wouldn't be the same as pouring gasoline on a fire) and sometime all it seems I see is more forked threads.

Add to that I'm a player so the DM side of the site isn't of the greatest interest to me. I liked seeing thoughts from the DM side of things which is why I signed up to begin with but even that has dimminished to me only being a fraction of the time I used to browse the site.

 

[Roland55]

Yeah me neither. That should change at GenCon though!

But seriously, I hear where you're coming from. It's undeniable that ENWorld is having a bit of an identity crisis lately. It's not entirely unexpected but that doesn't make it more pleasant to live through.

If it makes you feel any better here's a couple things to consider:

First, you may think that you are "nobody of note" but that's not entirely true. I know and recognized your username and what springs to mind is "solid contributor". In other words, it's having folks like you here that makes us willing to deal with some of the other, more horrid, posters that require wrangling by us mods. *Rel stops short of singing Wind Beneath My Wings*

Also be assured that, while we're going through a rough patch, this is not the new status quo. There are some discussions going on behind the scenes as to what can be done to make ENW the friendly, civil, informative place that we all know it can be.

I really hope you'll hang around to see those efforts come to fruition. Because we need people here for whom that is a goal. Regardless of your decision, you've been a welcome member here and I thank you for that.

That's refreshing ... good to hear. Whether it works out or not, I appreciate the attempt (in advance, even).

Though I did become a Community Supporter, I was seriously considering a rather lengthy time-out myself. Now, I think I'll hang around and see what happens.

Even if things don't change, it helps to remember how this forum compares to ... others.

 

[Raven Crowking]

some of the other, more horrid, posters that require wrangling by us mods.

Ahem! I'm standing right here!

 

[Roland55]

Ahem! I'm standing right here!

Oh, that was you?? You might want to push that hood back a little ... couldn't see your face.

Now -- if the mean man is being rude to you, you can always report him, yes??

 

[Grimstaff]

But the focus seems to have shifted in the past 9-12 months. The attitude seems to have shifted away from the (generally) positive and much closer to the (generally) negative. People are more interested in talking about what they don't like instead of what they do. This is a real shame, because I considered ENWorld one of the few havens where the mods and community worked together to create a pleasant environment of discourse. I'm not saying people should not discuss their negative opinions. But lately it seems these discussion degenerate into roundabout arguments and childish namecalling. It's gotten to the point where I feel that I cannot discuss what I like, because it seems likely that, like a pack of roving wolves, detractors will descend upon my thoughts and rip them to shreds.

Very much in agreement here. As a long-time 3.5 fan/DM who is exploring 4E, its been extremely frustrating to see so much positive-minded discussion of the new edition immediately derailed by the same old cries of "video game!", "no roleplay!", etc. I don't remember so much negativity aimed at posts regarding C&C, True20, M20, BD&D, and it was fun to see discussions on these games while still chugging happily along with my 3.5 Wilderlands game.

To add to my consternation, I even find myself getting drawn into this negativity and posting stuff I regret.

I find the assertion that its folks who are new to the boards behind all the fighting laughable. Some long-time posters here have boldly admitted to intentionally derailing positive threads. There is an ever-thinning line between expressing one's opinions and outright boorishness. I think its fair to say many folks have some genuine complaints about 4E and WotC, and there is no reason why their opinions shouldn't be heard, so perhaps an alternate forum should be established for folks to air their concerns? Maybe that would result in fewer threadcraps? Only one way to find out, I guess.

What would everyone think of a specific "Edition Wars" forum so the rest of us can get back sharing/discussing gaming ideas?

 

[Vocenoctum]

Well, I made an effort: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=236726

The problem is, right now, "edition wars" and "company wars" are all anyone seems willing to talk about.

RC

My problem is, the site's reliability right now doesn't even let me follow the threads I've already been in, so it's hard to find new interesting threads in the time between board crashes.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Very much in agreement here. As a long-time 3.5 fan/DM who is exploring 4E, its been extremely frustrating to see so much positive-minded discussion of the new edition immediately derailed by the same old cries of "video game!", "no roleplay!", etc. I don't remember so much negativity aimed at posts regarding C&C, True20, M20, BD&D, and it was fun to see discussions on these games while still chugging happily along with my 3.5 Wilderlands game.

You seem to be coming from a very similar place as me. Loved (and still love) 3rd edition, but also like 4th and very much want to run it. I've also played a variety of different games, d20 or otherwise. Nobody ever seemed to have a problem with that. Why now?

My gut tells me that many of these people were expecting one thing and got another. With a game like True20, there aren't as many expections. But put the Dungeons & Dragons label on something, and it's a different story. Hence, the outcry.

Obviously this is not the case for everyone; some people simply don't like it, for one reason or another. Again, totally cool with that. But why it should need to be reiterated at every opportunity, I'll never understand.

My problem is, the site's reliability right now doesn't even let me follow the threads I've already been in, so it's hard to find new interesting threads in the time between board crashes.

While site stability has been pretty bad lately, I'm not really sure how that is contributing to the overall attitude shift I've seen. In my experience, this shift started well before the EN2 launch.

 

[Grimstaff]

My gut tells me that many of these people were expecting one thing and got another. With a game like True20, there aren't as many expections. But put the Dungeons & Dragons label on something, and it's a different story. Hence, the outcry.

Obviously this is not the case for everyone; some people simply don't like it, for one reason or another. Again, totally cool with that. But why it should need to be reiterated at every opportunity, I'll never understand..

A few posters have stated they are intentionally poo-pooing 4E threads because they're afraid they'll have no one left to game with. While I can sympathize with that, I don't understand it, and creating a bad environment for discussion certainly won't expand the gaming community.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

A few posters have stated they are intentionally poo-pooing 4E threads because they're afraid they'll have no one left to game with. While I can sympathize with that, I don't understand it, and creating a bad environment for discussion certainly won't expand the gaming community.

Really? I've noticed that when I talk to gamers about 4e, they seem less interested. I'm afraid if I stop playing 3.x games, I'll have no one to game with!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Very much in agreement here. As a long-time 3.5 fan/DM who is exploring 4E, its been extremely frustrating to see so much positive-minded discussion of the new edition immediately derailed by the same old cries of "video game!", "no roleplay!", etc. I don't remember so much negativity aimed at posts regarding C&C, True20, M20, BD&D, and it was fun to see discussions on these games while still chugging happily along with my 3.5 Wilderlands game.

C&C, True20, M20, BD&D all might also be "video-gamey" lack "versimilitude" or "promote no role-play" if they were supposed to be the next edition of D&D. But some people seem to fear - and perhaps rightfully so - that if 4E is a success, they will be left alone with very few players available that still play "that old version of the game".

C&C or True20 are not the "main-stream" game, they are an option that's nice to have, but 3E was a "safe haven". if you liked it, you would have countless of fans that you could play and discuss with... And this is a position to comfortable to give up. The move to 4E forces 3E fans* to make a change and a choice: Change from a popular game that suited their preferences, to a choice between a popular game that doesn't suit their play style and a unpopular game that suits their style.

C&C fans or True20 fans made this change and choice willingly. But 3E fans are forced to make the same change and a choice.

At least, that's the worst case scenario for a 3E fan.
A 4E fan is looking at a bright future - popular game that suites their preferences is what they can change to.
Unless 3E fans "prove" that 4E is an inferior game and "destroy" its popularity... Hence the counter-reaction of 4E fans when people call their game video-gamey or "not role-playing". They have to fight these accusations in fear that some people believe it and avoid 4E.

*) If I say 3E fans, of course I am refering to the subset of 3E fans that don't like D&D 4. There are certainly 3E fans that also like 4E, but those are less likely to incite edition wars.
They can be caught in the fire - trying to debunk myths/accusations about each system, and unable to discuss the flaws and merits of each game without stuff turning into an edition war.