Taking a Break

[Vocenoctum]

Alternatively, one could have a 3e forum and a 4e forum, and simply deal with anything that doesn't belong in that forum on a case-by-case basis.

I dunno, General Discussion is the Main Forum, everything else is marginalized. If there's not enough discussion going to keep interest in a subforum, the folks will go to the other forum or go somewhere else entirely.

Sometimes, adapting an idea from 4e is going to be a good solution to a 3e problem. Sometimes, adapting an idea from 3e is going to be a good solution to a 4e problem. Sometimes, something from GURPS might be interesting to players of either/both games.

I don't think one has to pick sides to have an intelligent conversation

I think you can have plenty of discussion internal to the system, but the edition wars thing will generally go badly...

Now, if there was a way to make like, ENworld 4e, and tell the 3e guys to go to Circus Maximus (or vice versa) then maybe.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Now, if there was a way to make like, ENworld 4e, and tell the 3e guys to go to Circus Maximus (or vice versa) then maybe.

I wonder if the fear that EN World will become an exclusively 4e board is why some are trying to "win" the edition wars right now?

("Win" is in quotes because, as should be obvious, this is not something that can be won.)


RC

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I wonder if the fear that EN World will become an exclusively 4e board is why some are trying to "win" the edition wars right now?

Quite possible. And it works both ways - if 3E "wins" the edition war, this means 4E fans have no place to go to, either. Nobody wants to feel like a minority.

Of course, as you say, there is nothing to win.

 

[smootrk]

I wonder if the fear that EN World will become an exclusively 4e board is why some are trying to "win" the edition wars right now?

Therre may be something in this statement.

I like ENWorld (or mostly do, considering the talk of late). Conversely, I don't particularly care for 4e. I would prefer that my favorite gaming forums not change so drastically to 4e orientation that I completely lose interest in coming here. Obviously, proponents of 4e would feel the opposite, stating that they would prefer their favorite gaming forums to focus also upon their chosen version of the game.

I personally think that ENWorld should stay 3e like the original title of the site was designed for, and that the ENW staff could build a new site altogether that mirrors the functionality here, but with a focus on 4e. If 5th edition comes around, then build a new site for that crowd. I see no reason to cram the 4e stuff into the framework build over years that caters to the 3e crowd.
And I see this as wise from a business standpoint as well... If I were a 4e material producer (if there actually will be any given GSL) then I would not want to waste my advertising upon folks who care little for it. If I were a 3rd edition third party (or pathfinder oriented), I would prefer my advertising dollar go to the right audience. If I wrote material that is edition neutral, then perhaps I would advertise in both sites...

anyhow, my 2 cents

 

[D'karr]

After seeing some of the "discussions" on this thread, I can see why you'd want to take a break.

I'd want to take one too.

Good luck.

 

[rounser]

some are trying to "win" the edition wars right now?

This is attributing ulterior motives again. Although it may be true in some people's cases, I'm not sure it's true generally.

Some (most?) people want to big up 4E because they're genuinely enthused about it, just as others want to vent their spleens on how they've been genuinely let down by it, and are frustrated by it.

Then you add the proselytizing - the "my way is better than your way" stuff. And it's most common between close relations - non-gaming examples being different religious denominations, or different subgenres of a music genre. The differences seem subtle to outsiders, but huge and fundamental, and dealbreaking, to insiders.

The problem lies in that I may be just voicing what I think, whereas the next guy sees it as an attack on what he wants to be enthused about. I'm not "baiting" him, as I've seen it assumed.

In time, both things (the enthusiasm and novelty of the new toy, and the disappointment and frustration of losing the future of a favourite game) will wane, and things will return to normal.

Probably.

 

[Raven Crowking]

This is attributing ulterior motives again.

No. It's raising a question. And it's accepting that folks (myself included) may act for multiple motives, some of which they may not be fully aware of. (I understand, of course, that not everyone accepts this premise, but I frequently find that stepping back and examining whether or not what I am doing matches what I believe my motives to be reveals undercurrents of motive which I was not consciously aware of previously. To this degree, at least, I accept the Freudian hypothesis. YMMV.)

Some (most?) people want to big up 4E because they're genuinely enthused about it, just as others want to vent their spleens on how they've been genuinely let down by it, and are frustrated by it.

No doubt. But the question remains, why do those who want to big up 4e care about the spleen-venters, or vice versa? To my mind, this requires a different motive than mere enthusiasm (or lack thereof). Edition wars are built out of proselytizing - the "my way is better than your way" stuff - and this is what my question related to directly:

I wonder if the fear that EN World will become an exclusively 4e board is why some are trying to "win" the edition wars right now?​

I do not say "I wonder if the fear that EN World will become an exclusively 4e board is why some are trying to discuss 4e right now?"


RC


P.S.: Just saw The Dark Knight last night, and it was better than the hype!

 

[hewligan]

I come here less and less as well. One reason is the incessant bickering and stupid edition wars. Another is related to the above: namely that it is virtually impossible to find a thread that is about some aspect of roleplaying that does not descend into the above. Then there is the lack of a stealth skin that is killing my eyes. Lastly, the frequent down-times are making it very hard for me to keep my PbF game ticking along on this site, and the fact that I host my PbF game here is the main reason I also read and post here. I am due to finish my PbF game in the next few weeks, and the next installment may be on another board (a white one with black text).

I do still love ENWorld, I just find the above are making it less and less rewarding to visit. So, in short, I agree with the OP.

 

[rounser]

And it's accepting that folks (myself included) may act for multiple motives, some of which they may not be fully aware of. (I understand, of course, that not everyone accepts this premise, but I frequently find that stepping back and examining whether or not what I am doing matches what I believe my motives to be reveals undercurrents of motive which I was not consciously aware of previously. To this degree, at least, I accept the Freudian hypothesis. YMMV.)

Yeah, okay, I'll buy that. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, though.

 

[SteveC]

This is an interesting discussion. Coming to ENWorld as someone who was on Usenet, many times I say "what's all the fuss about?"

But still, we have "no politics," "grandma friendly," and "no attacks on a person," as rules, and that's fairly effective.

The real problem that I see is that there is a significant amount of the core ENWorld audience that simply doesn't like 4E and is still looking for a direction to go to for future games, now that 3X is out of print. When I say that, I'm not talking about the "drive by" posters who come in, make some flames and then leave, I mean the core membership who have been here since the beginning. I don't know if people realize it, but I am one of those people, so I recognize the original crew most of the time, and put a lot more stock in what they have to say.

I think for a lot of them (and me, partially, although I am playing 4E I have a lot of issues with it) are frustrated because they've been on board the train for a long time, and it has gone in a direction they aren't comfortable with, leaving them without a game in print that they support. It's only natural that you see some acting out because of that. Is it a good thing? No, but when you actually call these folks on it, they're generally reasonable and stop. In these cases, I think peer pressure is the way to achieve better results.

But on the other side, I think a lot of folks who are upset at the claims about 4E really need to relax a little more as well. To take the "video game" quality, you see a lot of drive by posters using it, and moderation typically steps in and deals with the offender. At the same time, there are a number of qualities of 4E that you can legitimately argue are video gamey. Note that I'm not saying they are that way, but that the issue is up for debate.

For me, it comes down to "is this thread a legitimate conversation, and can I bring something to it/learn something from it." If the answer to both is "no" I just stay out of it. I also try to remember that even if the posters tells me otherwise, everything on message boards is only the poster's opinion.

So that's my $.02 worth.

--Steve