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D&D 5E Tasha's really improved and changed the feel of Rangers


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ECMO3

Hero
Considering that the PHB says nothing about verbal components having to be loud, that's a DM-specific inflicted issue.
This is not true.

The PHB rules state spells with verbal components "require the chanting of mystic words ...... with specific pitch and resonance"

That means technically they must be out loud, if not there is no pitch. Further the rules go on to say you can't cast these while gagged or in an area of silence. If they did not need to be out loud, the silence would presumably have no effect.
 
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Undrave

Hero
It's not like fighters had access to advanced fighting styles or fighting masteryy to say "well rangers and paladins and especially barbarians don't train with weapon enough to get Great Weapon Mastery or Archery MAstery."
Like I said, some of the feats in the game feel like 'Advanced Fighting Styles' that would have been Fighter features but were shunted to the Feats section just so they can say "Fighters get more feats! Just like in 3.x! You loved 3.X right? LOVE US!"

Great Weapon Master, Heavy Armor Master, Polearm Master, Shield Master...
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I don't know. We roll it into the fiction in our games. Fighters know weapons and armor more so than the others. And the rules give more flexibility to optimize in that regard. There is also a lot of fiction and theme in the subclasses.

If your sneaky Fighter in leather and a Rapier comes across a magic longsword and plate, he can switch gears easier than most and optimize for it. In terms of the mechanics that works better when you roll stats but even with the 8 strength dex fighter you can still do it if you find some other magic.

If Combat Flexibility is the fighter's thing then no edition has succeeded in making it unique to Fighters. Any flexibility fighters had, rangers had. And in 2 editions, rangers were more flexible as they had access to good archery and dual wielding.
This is not true.

The PHB rules state spells with verbal components "require the chanting of mystic words ...... with specific pitch and resonance"

That means technically they not only must be out loud, if not there is no pitch. Further the rules go on to say you can't cast these while gagged or in an area of silence. If they did not need to be out loud, the silence would presumably have no effect.

The verbal component must be said out loud. But nothing in the rules says you must be loud when saying them.

Basically you must be able to use your "outdoor voice" to cast a spell with a verbal component. You can't speak softly. There is no shout requirement.

Requiring anything louder than your normal speaking voice is a table to table house rule.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Like I said, some of the feats in the game feel like 'Advanced Fighting Styles' that would have been Fighter features but were shunted to the Feats section just so they can say "Fighters get more feats! Just like in 3.x! You loved 3.X right? LOVE US!"

Great Weapon Master, Heavy Armor Master, Polearm Master, Shield Master...
The armor feats 100% feel like fighter class features.

Fighters should wear armor better than any other class. Rangers should dodge attacks better.
 

ECMO3

Hero
If Combat Flexibility is the fighter's thing then no edition has succeeded in making it unique to Fighters. Any flexibility fighters had, rangers had. And in 2 editions, rangers were more flexible as they had access to good archery and dual wielding.

Well fighters are more flexible in this edition because they have more fighting style options and can change them once more than Rangers can.


The verbal component must be said out loud. But nothing in the rules says you must be loud when saying them.
The post I responded to said they could not be said out loud. Moreover the rules say you "chant" the verbal components and in normal English "chant" would mean "say, shout or sing" which would be AT LEAST a speaking voice.

The rules also state you can make an arcane check to determine the spell someone is casting, that would presume you know they are casting a spell, which would not be the case if you did not have to say the verbal component loud enough to be heard.

Finally, Crawford has stated that verbal components make an "appreciable noise" further stating you can not remain hidden while doing them.
 

Azzy

KMF DM
This is not true.

The PHB rules state spells with verbal components "require the chanting of mystic words ...... with specific pitch and resonance"

That means technically they must be out loud, if not there is no pitch. Further the rules go on to say you can't cast these while gagged or in an area of silence. If they did not need to be out loud, the silence would presumably have no effect.
There's a difference between "out loud" and "loud". You can chant without being at normal talking volume (let alone at a louder than normal volume). It's chanting, not belting. There is no prerequisite to be loud our shouting to be silenced—silence affects normal talking volume (and even whispers).
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Well fighters are more flexible in this edition because they have more fighting style options and can change them once more than Rangers can.
That's not flexible because fighters , paladins, and rangers each only get to choose 1 fighting style.And barbarians and monks are locked into their 1 as well.

The class is flexible but individual fighters are not. Rangers and Paladins are more flexible as they have spells tailored to different fighting styles and can prepare multiple types of spells.
 

ECMO3

Hero
That's not flexible because fighters , paladins, and rangers each only get to choose 1 fighting style.And barbarians and monks are locked into their 1 as well.
No since Tasha's they can change their fighting style and choose a different fighting style every timethey get an ASI, which means they can change to a different fighting style 8 times over 18 levels and have many more fighting styles to choose from.

This is what makes them more flexible as martials with weapons.

I am not considering spells when I say this and that is a different discussion as spellcasters are more versatile than non-spell casters across the board. In this case I would agree Ranger spells bring versatility to the hand-to-hand combat I don't really think Paladin spells bring more versatility, although they do bring more power.
 



Mordhau

Adventurer
No since Tasha's they can change their fighting style and choose a different fighting style every timethey get an ASI, which means they can change to a different fighting style 8 times over 18 levels and have many more fighting styles to choose from.

This is what makes them more flexible as martials with weapons.

I am not considering spells when I say this and that is a different discussion as spellcasters are more versatile than non-spell casters across the board. In this case I would agree Ranger spells bring versatility to the hand-to-hand combat I don't really think Paladin spells bring more versatility, although they do bring more power.
That's not flexibility. Flexibility is being able to respond to situations as they arise
 



clearstream

(He, Him)
This is not true.

The PHB rules state spells with verbal components "require the chanting of mystic words ...... with specific pitch and resonance"

That means technically they must be out loud, if not there is no pitch. Further the rules go on to say you can't cast these while gagged or in an area of silence. If they did not need to be out loud, the silence would presumably have no effect.
I suppose there can be a question of how carrying, as another poster pointed out. Can I murmur at a similar level to the snap of a crossbow? Or must I project loudly?

I don't see why ranger magic should require the latter, but I do agree that it must be perceptible so fails the test for silence to remain hidden.

@Charlaquin's spell-less ranger could well have an advantage here.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
The issue is many people miss the point when they say "rangers wouldn't casts loud spells. That would reveal their location."

Ranger is the Tracker class.

The ranger is several yards away when tailing someone. Far enough away that if they cast spells, it is lost in the nose of the wild. And they have spells like speak with animals, speak with plants, beast sense, etc, etc. And older edition rangers had spells that made tracks glow or reappear, move underground, glide, vineswing, and teleport through trees.

That's the point. Rangers aren't supposed to need to be close by to follow you. So they can cast all the spells they want.
 

ECMO3

Hero
That's not flexibility. Flexibility is being able to respond to situations as they arise
Yeah, you find a staff of striking, so at your next ASI you switch from archery to great weapon fighting.

Or you know will be fighting a flying opponent so at your next ASI you switch from Archery to superior technique and take trip attack so you can knock him out of the air on a hit.

Ranger or Paladin could not do either of these things.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Yeah, you find a staff of striking, so at your next ASI you switch from archery to great weapon fighting.

Or you know will be fighting a flying opponent so at your next ASI you switch from Archery to superior technique and take trip attack so you can knock him out of the air on a hit.

Ranger or Paladin could not do either of these things.
That's campaign flexibility. Not encounter or adventure flexibility.

Campaign level flexibilty is rarely spoken of because players can't control item drops nor enemies.
 


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