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D&D 5E Tasha's Summoning and Sorcerers

Why Tasha's Why?!

So, I just went through the new spell list for Sorcerers in Tasha's, and as you might have guessed, I noticed that sorcerers do not get a single one of the new summoning spells.

Oh sure, the Aberrant Mind gets Summon Abberration, and the Clockwork Soul gets Summon Construct, but no sorcerer gets Summon Elemental (which would have been pretty thematic for Dragon Sorcerers, Wild Sorcerers, or Storm Sorcerers) or Summon Shadowspawn for Shadow Sorcerers.

And, I didn't realize this til now, but it looks like Sorcerers... never get any summoning spells on their spell list. Seriously, why?
 

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Hawk Diesel

Adventurer
Mechanically, I don't think there is a reason. My best guess would be that summoning magic is more representative of the intentional study of arcane knowledge and requires exacting execution. When I picture summoning spells, I envision circles of runes and using books full of lore to learn the names of those you are attempting to bind into service. That kind of thing fits with a wizard, and the prayers calling upon warriors and guardians fits with the cleric theme. But since sorcerers are traditionally viewed as having more natural gifts and their spells being a bit more unrefined or unsophisticated while having more raw power behind them, it doesn't fit with summoning spells.

Of course, this is a rather narrow perspective, but I think this represents what might be considered the more mainstream understanding in the differences between wizardly magic and sorcerous magic. Whether or not this makes sense in how you see sorcerers or want them to play in your games, well, seems like a rather easy fix so long as you don't play in AL or have a rather strict DM.
 

Mechanically, I don't think there is a reason. My best guess would be that summoning magic is more representative of the intentional study of arcane knowledge and requires exacting execution. When I picture summoning spells, I envision circles of runes and using books full of lore to learn the names of those you are attempting to bind into service. That kind of thing fits with a wizard, and the prayers calling upon warriors and guardians fits with the cleric theme. But since sorcerers are traditionally viewed as having more natural gifts and their spells being a bit more unrefined or unsophisticated while having more raw power behind them, it doesn't fit with summoning spells.

Of course, this is a rather narrow perspective, but I think this represents what might be considered the more mainstream understanding in the differences between wizardly magic and sorcerous magic. Whether or not this makes sense in how you see sorcerers or want them to play in your games, well, seems like a rather easy fix so long as you don't play in AL or have a rather strict DM.

Yeah, I can fix it (and intend to) but it just caught me off guard

Personally, while I get the runic magic and such, I picture sorcererous summoning as more of a call to a kindred spirit. A Storm Sorcerer might not know how to make a summoning circle, but they can call out to spirits of wind and sea and have those spirits answer.
 


Sorcerers do not rely on others to make their magic. They are fonts of magic and do not normally waste time with petty summons. They are charisma based and that is why, summons in general is not their pet peeve. A charisma based caster that do not rely on an external source of power (as the warlock) has a strong sense of self and prefer to do things personally. That is my take and how sorcerers were originally presented.

Now, you can add the summons, it is your game. But I can't imagine a sorcerer wasting time on a summon when a direct approach would work. It simply doesn't add up in my mind.
 



Vael

Hero
And, I didn't realize this til now, but it looks like Sorcerers... never get any summoning spells on their spell list. Seriously, why?

I can understand some of the reasoning, if summoning was naming specific creatures that a wizard had to learn their truenames and specific rituals to call these creatures. If you are shaping magic and giving it a physical form, it does feel like it ought to be in the Sorcerer's wheelhouse.

I don't mind summoning being more a Wizard thing, if Sorcerers were given something else that they could do better than Wizards, outside of pure blasting.

Where I tend to go is self-buffing, self only transmutation spells and effects. Some of that is there already, from most of the subclasses getting physical manifestations of their magical heritage. But this should be reflected in their spell list. It irks me that Shapechange isn't a Sorcerer spell (I get why, a lot of spells with expensive material components are generally not on the list, but then Sorcerers shouldn't need that circlet to cast Shapechange anyway).
 

Sorcerers have never had summons in 5e. It's simply a matter of the theme.

What theme?

This sounds like a druid thing to me.

It can be, but the Storm Sorcerer is literally a sorcerer empowered by the mystical might of storms, sea, and wind. And an Air Elemental is quite literally a spirit of wind. The overlap is kind of obvious I think.

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Sorcerers do not rely on others to make their magic. They are fonts of magic and do not normally waste time with petty summons. They are charisma based and that is why, summons in general is not their pet peeve. A charisma based caster that do not rely on an external source of power (as the warlock) has a strong sense of self and prefer to do things personally. That is my take and how sorcerers were originally presented.

Now, you can add the summons, it is your game. But I can't imagine a sorcerer wasting time on a summon when a direct approach would work. It simply doesn't add up in my mind.

Yeah... no.

This relies on a personality trait (I rely on myself and my own power) which is not indicative of all sorcerers.

And what about the interpretation that the spirit summoned is just their own power given physical form? Then they are still only being self-reliant loners, but creating servants purely from their own power and psyche.

And, the idea that summoning a living whirlwind to smash your foes is somehow less direct than casting invisibility or Detect Thoughts makes zero sense to me.

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I can understand some of the reasoning, if summoning was naming specific creatures that a wizard had to learn their truenames and specific rituals to call these creatures. If you are shaping magic and giving it a physical form, it does feel like it ought to be in the Sorcerer's wheelhouse.

Yeah, it is that "if" that gets me. Summoning has never been presented as naming a specific being and using their truename and a specific ritual to summon them in DnD 5e. Druids certainly don't use that single action Conjure Animals to do that.
 



This relies on a personality trait (I rely on myself and my own power) which is not indicative of all sorcerers.

And what about the interpretation that the spirit summoned is just their own power given physical form? Then they are still only being self-reliant loners, but creating servants purely from their own power and psyche.

And, the idea that summoning a living whirlwind to smash your foes is somehow less direct than casting invisibility or Detect Thoughts makes zero sense to me.
This has been the basis for the sorcerer's power from the begining. Feel free to ignore it and continue to wonder why it does not make sense.

For the spirits. Well... subclasses are there for a reason? To give you more than what the base class assume or a new twist to it. If everyone get to do the new trick of the subclass... why the subclass in the first place?
 





Anyway... what do you call a bard without any talent?

Answer: a drummer

Okay, real talk, Drummers are a vital part of any band. As a guy who was in marching band, the Drums were our backbone.

I know it is a meme, but I gotta stand up for my mates, they had mad skills.

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This has been the basis for the sorcerer's power from the begining. Feel free to ignore it and continue to wonder why it does not make sense.

Sorcerer came about in 3.X right? Taking a perusal through the PHB from 3.5 I see nothing in the class description that says they "prefer to do things personally"

I do note they can summon Familiars, They also had access to Summon Monster 1 thru 9. command undead, Mordenkainen's faithful hound... so yeah, the basis for the sorcerers power was not that they prefered to do things themselves instead of "waste[ing] time with petty summons."

Now, I will grant that 4e didn't have them summoning anything permanent (plenty of abilities that involved a temporary summoning of something, like Blackfire Wyrm or Flight of Dragons), and 5e clearly has decided that isn't a thing, but to declare that it has been a thing since the beginning... seems to be false.


For the spirits. Well... subclasses are there for a reason? To give you more than what the base class assume or a new twist to it. If everyone get to do the new trick of the subclass... why the subclass in the first place?

Since I'm talking about a subclasses, and the other two subclasses in Tashas get summoning spells.... what is your point?

I think the bigger issue is that there are a few sorcerer subclasses where it makes sense, instead of just one at a time.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Since I'm talking about a subclasses, and the other two subclasses in Tashas get summoning spells.... what is your point?

I think the bigger issue is that there are a few sorcerer subclasses where it makes sense, instead of just one at a time.

The issue is that twice now, WotC has added bonus magic to subclasses (ranger and now sorcerer) in supplements but haven't retroactivity added them to prior subclasses, making them inferior to the newer ones.

This book literally was about adding supplemental options to older content; why they didn't give "optional" bonus spells to hunter, beastmaster, draconic, wild, divine soul, shadow and storm sorcery is mind-blowing.
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
Since divine soul sorcerers get access to the cleric list, they get summon celestial (and don't forget that planar ally doesn't need concentration, so if you have a little time to kill, the DS sorcerer can have can 2 higher-than-CR-2 flunkies). I have long wondered if sorcerers (in general) have been left off the summon/conjure spells to avoid some kind of twinning abuse ("but I am only targeting one fire elemental on the Elemental Plane of Fire with conjure elemental").

I have to admit that I was surprised that they didn't add any retroactive bonus spells to the sorcerers and ranger subclasses in the PHB.
 

Hawk Diesel

Adventurer
The issue is that twice now, WotC has added bonus magic to subclasses (ranger and now sorcerer) in supplements but haven't retroactivity added them to prior subclasses, making them inferior to the newer ones.

This book literally was about adding supplemental options to older content; why they didn't give "optional" bonus spells to hunter, beastmaster, draconic, wild, divine soul, shadow and storm sorcery is mind-blowing.

I did my own retroactive bonus spells. It wasn't hard, but certainly annoying that WotC clearly recognizes what bonus spells add to a subclass, and now published a book that specifically could have addressed the issue but didn't.
 

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