Technological developments in a magical world.

[alsih2o]

Let's talk technology in your game world.

I am assuming, for this discussion, that you play in a pseudo-medieval/ren. world. Those of you playing pseudo-greeks or pseudo-cavmen have to make your own list.

With the powers of magic available I am wondering what technological developments are available in your world-

Magnifying glasses?
Telescopes?
Window glass?
Windmills?
Water pumps?
Spectacles?
Compass?
Longitude and latitude?

And, on a related note, where is medicine in your world?

Draining fluids?
Counting humours?
Leeches and bat poo?
Actual, detailed anatomy starting to step forward?

Lastly, what about maps? Are maps-

Common?
Correct?
Standardized?

Thanks, a little insight into your table always helps.

 

[Beale Knight]

I allow everything that's in the Player's Handbook so far as items that exist, but that doesn't mean there's a stock of them on shop shelves waiting to be purchased. Tech in the world is aroundabout 1100 western Europe. Where the PH is off from that scale I invent some rationalization - like gnome glassworkers, dwarven smiths, etc.

Particulars:
Glass is rare, used to show off wealth more than anything.

Windmills are common in one particular part of the world, but that's balanced by a severe lack of iron ore around there.

I rule out the compass simply because it's more dramatic that way, and makes Survival all the more important.

There's no great big map of the world, or even close. No one's thought about Longitude and latitude because of this. The maps that exist are all regional, and they're pretty accurate, but there's HUGE areas between mapped regions.

Medicine is closer to the Eastern Empire than Europe in the dark ages. Still lots to die from, but the concepts are closer to correct - no rules against dissection!

Of course if the game or adventure demands some detail deviate from that, than I will happily deviate!

 

[Hand of Evil]

Glassworks - very common, windows, glasses, telescopes, and such.

Agriculture - Hydroponics on the level of Americian Indians, use of land, channels, and devolopment of grains/pods. Use of water-wheels common.

Medicine - magic and basic first aid and sterilization, boil water, clean items and such. While general anatomy is known because of magic healing most see causes of illiness to be magical.

Maps - Limited but this is due to mappers not coming back, while detail maps are available of coast and rivers you have vast areas of "unknown". Flight has helped but still have areas call 'really big forest'. Compasses, yes but no longitude and latitude, travel keeps to coast lines for the most part.

 

[painandgreed]

Let's talk technology in your game world.

With the powers of magic available I am wondering what technological developments are available in your world-

Magnifying glasses?
Telescopes?
Window glass?
Windmills?
Water pumps?
Spectacles?
Compass?
Longitude and latitude?

Even though IMC it's a medieval world roughly like the 1200's, I'd say all of these items are possible. Between a past, fallen empire of great knowledge and the leanrings of the dwarves, elves and gnomes, expamples of these and knowledge of how to build them can be found. The main trouble is that they are still treated as magic items or works of art at best. If you wanted some of these, you'd have to track down the wizard with the knowledge and convince him to build one for you. Each one is then made for the specific requirements of the owner. Some of which are made irrelevant due to magic. I suspect there is a clerical spell (if listed in the books or not) that will correct vision. There are spells to divine longitude or at least time so it can be calculated.

And, on a related note, where is medicine in your world?

Draining fluids?
Counting humours?
Leeches and bat poo?
Actual, detailed anatomy starting to step forward?

Medicine, aka healing, is fairly advanced in my world. With the clerical ability to divine answers to questions from the gods and that everything in my world is just like RL unless acted upon by magic, the medical knowledge they have gathered is quite large. They know anatomy, and basic germ theory and what causes various diseases and how to cure or prevent them. Thus hygene is much better than it was in RL with closed sewers and such at an early age. A person with a decent healing skill probably has equivilant knowledge as a modern day EMT and could do as good a job as one could do without advanced technology.

Lastly, what about maps? Are maps-

Common?
Correct?
Standardized?

Thanks, a little insight into your table always helps.

Again, there are correct maps, but they are treated as magical knowledge and not shared freely. The more money you have and better connections will get you a better map up to the point you could pay a high level wizard to cast a spell to create an accurate map of what you want. They are not common because travel is not common. The exception to this is seafaring where they are doubly protected because having a better map than the other guy not only means doing a better job than him but also perhaps success or failure at risk of your life.

 

[adwyn]

Glass Glass is common, though rarely in the large sheets of clear glass we are used to. Ground lenses for telescopes and microscopes exist but are not a daily item for most.

Mills, wind and water powered, are also common as are simple pumps. Their prevalence is often an economic factor as they are expensive and man power is usually cheap. Also used are cranes powered by wooden squirrel cage devices that require several men.

Compasses are known but not widely used outside of ocean navigation, and even then have a 10-15 degree range of error. Stars are more reliable and the preferred method. Maps are often detailed, but a lack of innovations regarding perspective and the curvature of the planet hamper most maps as the common method is for the mapper to use a flying carpet set aloft at specific points. Thus the maps are most often interpretive paintings.

Medical knowledge has been scewed by a lack of need. Most medical knowledge is focused on keeping people alive until magical healing can be used or the patient recovers on their own. The rudimentary basics of mundane disease transmission are understood, but not the actual germ theory. One problem is that I do not allow magical cures to affect hereditary diseases, though for the campaign it is not known why some diseases respond to magical curing and others do not.

 

[Ibram]

The two biggest influences on tech level are geographical location and Race.

Dwarves have a relatively high level of technology, with crude steam engines and black powder weapons. Their knowledge of metalurgy is exceptionaly well advance but their knowledge of chemistry and medicine has lagged far behind.

Elves are very advanced in the fields of mathematics, astronomy, and Newtonian Physics. Thousands of years of exploration have given them detailed knowledge of geography and ocean currents. They have the idea of logitude, but lack the clocks needed for latitude calculations, however their detailed knowledge of the currents makes their voyages very accurate. They are confiened to sail power, and their knowledge of anatomy is very limited.

Both have access to skilled glass makers, and so telescopes are relatively common. Magnifying glasses aree usualy seen a a curiosity. The Compass is well known to both races, but the pricnipals behind it are not.

Advanced human nations have access to higher level mathematics (Calculus) and some astronomy (like the Elves they know that the world revolves around its sun, but their ability to predict star movements does not match the Elves). Chemistry is begining to emerge from Alchemy, but it has not progressed very far. Human Anatomy and Medicine are actualy more advanced then that of the Elves and Dwarves, but that is because Humans have little access to magical healing. Humans have access to black powder weapons, encluding flintlocks and mortars. Basic Newtonian physics have been discovered. Some areas have been well maped, but there are wide areas that have not, also most maps are only accurate in one area (no "standard" maps).


The most advanced race IMC are the Kataros, they have access to moderatly advanced steam technology, clocks accurate and sturdy enough to perform lattitude calculations, and the most advanced knowledge of anatomy, biology, and chemistry. They also have developed primative mechanical calculators (Difference Engines) and have been making lots of money performing calculations for Humans. Though they have not explored as much of the world as the Elves have the Kataros maps are more accurate.

 

[der_kluge]

From the Netbook of Tinkering:

3500 BC River boats are invented
3000 BC Bronze is used for weapons and armor
1500 BC The Hittites develop crude iron metallurgy
1200 BC Invention of steel under right conditions
200 BC Kites were being flown in China
100 BC Glass-blowing is discovered in Syria
105 AD Tsai Lun invents paper in China
753 Paper available in the Arab countries
770 Iron horseshoes come into common use
1050 Crossbows are invented in Europe
1100s Paper is introduced into Europe
1249 Roger Bacon states formulas for gunpowder
1285 Convex lens spectacles are used to treat farsighted people
1346 Cannons come into wide use
1450 The Chinese develop wooden block movable type printing
1451 Nicholas of Cusa invents concave lens to treat nearsighted people
1454 Johannes Gutenberg finishes a printing press with metal movable type
1480 Leonardo da Vinci describes a workable parachute
1492 Leonardo da Vinci describes a flying machine
1502 Peter Henlein builds the first pocket-watch
1569 Gerardus Mercator issues the first Mercator projection map
1590 Zacharias Janssen invents the micro-scope
1592 Galileo Galilei builds a crude thermo-meter
1594 Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet is first performed
1608 Hans Lipperhey patents the first telescope
1622 William Oughtred invents the slide rule
1656 Christian Huygens builds the first accurate pendulum clock
1698 Thomas Savery builds a steam-powered water pump to pump water out of mines
1674 Anton van Leeuwenhoek invents the compound microscope
1714 Gabriel Fahrenheit invents the mercury thermo-meter
1737 John Harrison presents the nautical chronometer, allowing for precise longitude determination while at sea
1740 Jacques de Vaucanson demonstrates his clockwork powered carriage
1747 James Lind discovers that citrus fruits prevent scurvy
1776 David Bushnell's "Turtle" submerges to attack Lord Howe's Flagship "Eagle"
1783 Joseph Montgolfier and Étienne Montgolfier launch the first hot air balloons
1791 Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart composes his requiem; dies that same year


The timeline goes up to 1928 with the invention of pencillin, but this gives you a good idea of technology advancements that pertain to a fantasy campaign.

I've always found it funny how D&D has spyglasses - akin to a telescope, which didn't exist in our world until 1608, almost 300 years after cannons were introduced, and 350 years after gunpowder was invented - two things that are rare in a D&D campaign, and typically shunned. It's also interesting how concave lens weren't created for nearly 200 years *After* convex lens were created.

 

[der_kluge]

More from the netbook of tinkering:

Technology can add a certain "flavor" to a D&D game. A game set in the Dark Ages is very different than one set in an era of Galileo and Shakespeare. As the DM, you need to decide with what level of technology you're comfortable. The highest any D&D world has probably ever been would be somewhere around the early 1600s. At that point, guns were commonplace, swords were rarely used, cannons were on ships, and pirates sailed the high seas.
A more appropriate D&D world is probably one that has a timeline that varies from our own. Most D&D worlds assume that guns are very rare. Most DMs don't want the headache of dealing with them, don't understand them, and most of all, think that they are unbalancing. For this reason, guns have tended to be very rare in D&D, cannons as well for the same reason. As you can see from the timeline, however, guns and cannons were developed hundreds of years before the telescope, or "spyglass", which is a staple of any D&D equipment listing. It's certainly reasonable to assume that guns and cannons aren't as necessary in a magic rich world. Why have guns when wizards have been shooting off magic missiles for thousands of years?
Another big difference between our world and a D&D world is the amount of time that the populations of the world have been communicating and travelling and learning. Our world is relatively short. A mere 2000 years ago we had no paper, most of the world was unexplored, we lived in adobe and grass huts and worshipped primitive sun gods. In a D&D world, 2000 years is 2 elven generations! Technology can certain last a lot longer in a world such as this when you've got people living a lot longer, and historical records being passed down through word of mouth that last so long. Gnomes and Dwarves live hundreds of years as well. Imagine what our world might be like if Galileo or Da Vinci were Gnomes and continued to develop ideas and research 300 years longer than they did in our world!
What you get, of course, is a fantastical world that blends the best of technology and magic together in a wondrous harmony. Technology, in some fields, would be stagnant or non-existent, but in other areas it would far surpass our own. A typical D&D world might have held a technological position such as our own 15th century Europe for 10,000 years! This leads to the disparity that results in guns and cannons being rare and "spyglasses" being common.


On compasses:
"In our world, magnets have existed since the ancient Greeks and Chinese first discovered them in the form of lodestones. The first known compass was probably first developed by the Chinese some 4500 years ago. This earliest compass used a splinter of a lodestone that floated on the surface tension of water. "

 

[Ferret]

Magnifying glasses?
Telescopes?
Window glass?
Windmills?
Water pumps?
Spectacles?
Compass?
Longitude and latitude?

Glass is available but is rare, so that makes most of the glass 'niceties' like windows, and magnifying glasses hard to come by. Apart from telescope, of which a handful (4-5) might exist at all, there is no call for them. Windmills exist, but I don't like the look of the traditional ones, so I use the double-whirly ones. Water pumps exist where needed, rivers usually suffice. Compases are known of, but I just can see people in my setting using them.... Sorry, no better explanation. Longitude and latitude? Definatly, along with working clocks, achimedes srews and other like stuff.

And, on a related note, where is medicine in your world?

Draining fluids?
Counting humours?
Leeches and bat poo?
Actual, detailed anatomy starting to step forward?

Leeches, plants, cleanliness (not quite hygene), Some idea on anatomy, mainly stomach has food, heart does stuff with blood.

Lastly, what about maps? Are maps-

Common?
Correct?
Standardized?

Depends on who you talk to, and who made the map....

 

[mythusmage]

On the Subject of Glass

For Ki it depends on the quality of the item. Cheap bottles, vials, and other glass containers are made without magic. The same with cheap window panes, which often are wavy and do strange things to the light as it passes through. Higher quality items are dweomered to reduce problems or to eliminate them outright.

For example. One glassmaker's spell (school of Conjuration) creates a magical field of force that lies flat in the middle of the air. Like the pool of mercury used in the real world, this allows a sheet of molten glass to be laid down on a perfectly flat surface. Making the job of producing window glass a lot easier than it would be otherwise.

Corrective lenses are often made using dweomers that allow for very fine control of the grinding surfaces used to shape the glass. Additional magics are used to tightly control glass quality, and thus produce lens glass with a better index of refraction than is possible with non-dweomered glass. Which means thinner lenses are possible.

Finally, while how Glassteel works is still a dark mystery, it has been adapted to other metals. Iron for example. Also copper and its alloys. These enchanted materials retain their usual physical properties, and have proven to have a higher index of refraction than silicate glass. Which means corrective lenses can be made much thinner. Steel telescope lenses are very popular among those who can afford the price, while sunglasses with bronze lenses sell big in certain sherrif departments.

Warning. The older version of Glassteel resulted in a product with a tendency to shatter like standard glass when struck sharply. Since not everybody uses the updated version of the spell (which eliminates the shattering) most municipalities have laws on the books outlawing glassteel armor. But windows, bottles, and the like are allowed.

I hope this gives people ideas.