Teleknesis: where's the power?

[shmoo2]

The weird thing about disarming is that you technically have two methods to "disarm." You can use the disarm Combat Maneuver, which works like you suggest (maybe) and the Sustained Force, in which your opponent would just get a will save to negate.

We rule that one needs to use the Combat Maneuver 'disarm' to target items held in hand by an opponent- i.e. "you knock the opponent’s weapon out of his hands and to the ground" as stated in the Disarm description.

The sustained force option applies only to objects in the opponent's possession, but not actively in hand- their hat, a sword in its scabbard, etc.

 

[Felix]

Like I said originally, that's mutual restraint, since you have to sit there and concentrate to maintain the grapple.

It's mutual restraint not to be equaled in the game. With this a 10th level sorcerer would have a reasonable chance of completely neutralizing a 20th level caster. This one spell outperforms the entire mechanic of counterspelling, and as long as you're worried more about the damage the single enemy could do to you than the damage you can inflict upon them, then this is your spell.

It's not even clear that the usual anti-grappling defenses would work all that well: as long as the target remains within range and line of effect, he can Dimension Door to his heart's content and still be a valid target for the spell.

This one spell allows you many of the options available for front-line fighter, and makes you just as effective. From 800 ft away.

No, it's not a good spell versus hordes. Nor should it be: that's what Fireball is for.

 

[Jack Simth]

There's a game mechanic for carrying around shrunken greatswords? And easy deployment method? I don't want to have to ask my victim me while I deposit 15 greatswords on the ground, or scatter them about like they were caltrops that he'll conveniently walk into the midst of.

First:
Try Large Greatswords - 3d6 each, only 16 pounds (so you can throw Caster Level of them at an opponent).

Or use upsized arrows - they do damage as a dagger of their size. Sure, a dagger starts at 1d4 medium.... but make them Colossal, and they're 3d6, same as the greatswords. Cost less, aren't reuseable... but you can Greater Magic Weapon 50 of them at a time for more damage and a better chance to hit. You can do the same with Sling Bullets.

Or just give a Ring of Telekinesis to a Rogue. Each one gets a seperate attack roll....

Second:
Sure. Have an Unseen Servant drag around a cart sporting a Portable Hole pre-spread on a wood surface; ammo is in the Hole. Or just dumped out in a horse and cart (outside dungeon environments).

 

[Drowbane]

A Master of the Unseen Hand (PrC from Complete Warrior) can make TK quite powerful.

edit: but even without it, TK can be very useful (others have explained how above, so I won't repeat).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Like I said originally, that's mutual restraint, since you have to sit there and concentrate to maintain the grapple.

Not mutual restraint, it is a sustained neutralisation of a character.

But it is better than that... since grapple includes the option

Damage Your Opponent
While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a -4 penalty on your grapple check.

Since the sorcerer is using his Cha in place of his Strength, he can probably be doing 1d3+6 damage or more with each grapple check while keeping the wizard pinned.

...given all the evidence provided to you, do you *still* think it is only worth being a 2nd level spell?

Cheers

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Why not use Sonorous Hum to maintain the required concentration and free up your actions?

 

[Felix]

A Master of the Unseen Hand (PrC from Complete Warrior) can make TK quite powerful.

edit: but even without it, TK can be very useful (others have explained how above, so I won't repeat).

I always thought that the MotUH was a bit lame since you have to take at least 9 levels of caster before you can enter, and when you take levels of the class you don't increase the number of times per day you can cast TK. I'd scale the BAB back and throw in at least two +1 effective caster level. Keep in the every-level increase of TK casting level as well so they stack. Then I'd be tempted to take the class around 12th level or so for a Sorcerer.

 

[Jack Simth]

Since the sorcerer is using his Cha in place of his Strength, he can probably be doing 1d3+6 damage or more with each grapple check while keeping the wizard pinned.

...given all the evidence provided to you, do you *still* think it is only worth being a 2nd level spell?

Cheers

That doesn't quite work out - you only get one grapple check per round from the spell, a Pin only lasts 1 round, a pin requires a grapple check, and it takes a grapple check to deal damage. Grappling sticks around from round to round until it's broken in some manner - so he can be pinned and unable to speak (but won't be taking damage from the Sorcerer) or grappled and taking damage (but not pinned).

But it's still a spell that will let a 10th level Sorcerer hold off a 15th level Wizard who hasn't prepared for that type of situation. Of course, a simple Ring of Freedom of Movement will stop it cold.....

 

[Imre]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that you can use Telekinesis to use a weapon in its preferred manner. That is, how would an obviously brute force spell allow you to properly wield a weapon? Clearly the damage listed for a given weapon describes its performance when used in its optimal fashion.

I can see a case for piercing or bludgeoning weapons (maybe), but certainly not slashing. Slashing takes a more complicated motion: try pressing a blade against something as opposed to slicing with it. TK is, I think, much too haphazard for this application. Also, arrows don't have listed damage, bows do.

 

[mvincent]

Try Large Greatswords - 3d6 each, only 16 pounds (so you can throw Caster Level of them at an opponent).

Excellent. I had forgotten about that.

Or use upsized arrows - you can Greater Magic Weapon 50 of them at a time

Very nice. I never even considered that before.

just give a Ring of Telekinesis to a Rogue. Each one gets a seperate attack roll....

Good idea, however the Rules of the Game has said:
"Volley Type Attacks
Sometimes, you make multiple attacks with the same attack roll, such as when you use the Manyshot feat, or you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack, such as with the scorching ray spell. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack."

Have an Unseen Servant drag around a cart sporting a Portable Hole pre-spread on a wood surface; ammo is in the Hole.

By canon, the inside of a portable hole is considered to be on another plane (and planar boundaries are considered to block line of effect). The ammo could maybe be partially sticking out though (possibly on a reloading system even). Ring gates might also be an option.