Teleknesis: where's the power?

[mvincent]

I don't know where people are getting the idea that you can use Telekinesis to use a weapon in its preferred manner. That is, how would an obviously brute force spell allow you to properly wield a weapon? Clearly the damage listed for a given weapon describes its performance when used in its optimal fashion.

The rules for Telekinesis say:
"Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner)"

 

[Jack Simth]

Excellent. I had forgotten about that.

Very nice. I never even considered that before.

Be warned: there's a limit to the amount of cheddar a DM will take. But when you want to make a spell over the top...

Good idea, however the Rules of the Game has said:
"Volley Type Attacks
Sometimes, you make multiple attacks with the same attack roll, such as when you use the Manyshot feat, or you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack, such as with the scorching ray spell. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack."

Eh, details.

By canon, the inside of a portable hole is considered to be on another plane (and planar boundaries are considered to block line of effect). The ammo could maybe be partially sticking out though (possibly on a reloading system even). Ring gates might also be an option.

A human (medium creature, 4 to 8 foot tall wielder) sized arrow is going to be about two feet long (give or take). Each size category doubles the dimensions - a Colossal creature is 64 or more feet tall; larger than medium by a factor of 16. That Colossal Arrow is going to be roughly 32 feet long. Even going with crossbow bolts (which is actually more expensive), you're looking at something in the neighborhood of 20 feet (you can purchase crossbow bolts nowadays at 16 inches - 16 times the size puts them at 21 feet, 4 inches). It won't all fit in the portable hole (which is only 10 feet deep). A big chunk of them will be sticking out for you to grab. Or you can use colossal Sling Bullets, and have them hauled on a cart by a donkey (much less expensive, although stairs get annoying). Just about any of the "ammo" items will do the job (but don't try shuriken - they start with too low of damage).

 

[frankthedm]

Considering there is a lot of grey area with TK, the spell can be used to try a lot of things.

While I don't agree with it, if the DM feels a violently thrusted victim should be treated as drawing AoOs as though moving, you can really ruin a medium creatures day. Especially if you have a flying ally to fling them at.

Red x's are where AoO's may occur depending on DM's opinions.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?t=135863&page=1&pp=40

 

[Jack Simth]

Don't *need* the flying ally to target - you can pretend there's an invisible foe in a square, and target that.

Hmm... how big is a Colossal Sling Bullet? Let's see... 10 of them weigh in at 5 pounds; with lead's density, that's 1.22 cubic inches; at a sphere's volume of 2/3rd's pi R^3, that's a radius of abuot 0.835 inches, so a diameter of about 1.67 inches. With a factor of 16 to push it up to Colossal (for the 3d6 damage ammo) you're looking at lead cannonballs with a diameter of 26.7 inches (a little over two feet - very BIG cannonballs). And, curiously, a Rules-As-Written weight of merely 8 pounds (doubled four times per the small to medium, medium to large weight conversion repeated to Colossal).

 

[mvincent]

Wow. Nice. Excellent illustration of someone that that was well and truly... erm... violently thrusted in an uncomfortable location.

btw: (if desired) I seem to recall Sage Advice giving a ruling on this in a recent Dragon magazine.

 

[frankthedm]

btw: (if desired) I seem to recall Sage Advice giving a ruling on this in a recent Dragon magazine.

IIRC sage claimed falling drew AoOs.

I take that bit of sage with a grain of salt.

 

[mvincent]

IIRC sage claimed falling drew AoOs.

I take that bit of sage with a grain of salt.

To be fair, here's the answer.
"Technically, any time you leave a threatened square, you provoke AoO's (unless using a special action to avoid them). Nothing in the rules suggests that the speed of the moving character has any impact on this, so the Sage must conclude that even if your movement is due to a fall, should provoke AoO's if you leave a threatened square."

That seems fairly reasonable (I could see most rules lawyers concluding the same from strict RAW), and it seems to have some precedence. I was also thinking that without this, some clever players might find ways to "involuntarily" move themselves without provoking in order to get out of (or into) sticky situations. I have no vested interest in the ruling myself, but again, it certainly seemed reasonable enough.

 

[Drowbane]

Ghost MotUH ftw

I always thought that the MotUH was a bit lame since you have to take at least 9 levels of caster before you can enter, and when you take levels of the class you don't increase the number of times per day you can cast TK. I'd scale the BAB back and throw in at least two +1 effective caster level. Keep in the every-level increase of TK casting level as well so they stack. Then I'd be tempted to take the class around 12th level or so for a Sorcerer.

On paper, alot of things look lame... or OPed (warblade, for example).

edit: note my title. I've yet to take MotUH with a Caster, but it rocks on toast with my Ghost cohort.

 

[Legildur]

Or, I suppose, 30d4 with scythes... that'd be a horrific scene to watch, eh?

Horrific to watch 15 scythes flying through the air? Or horrific to watch the poor player having to 'roll' (and I use that term loosely) a d4 30 times?

 

[starwed]

It seems like it would be good to include a tanglefoot bag in any use of violent thrust.

Or horrific to watch the poor player having to 'roll' (and I use that term loosely) a d4 30 times?

Last Breath is another good spell to give the d4 a workout. It's always a good idea, when designing an effect, to consider whether it's really necessary to use multiples of any dice other than d6s.