D&D 5E Teleport /fly /misty step the bane of cool dungeon design is RAW in 5E

[Hussar]

Well, really there are two separate but related issues here.

1. the large number of caster classes in 5e with easy access to pretty much any spell they want. You didn't run into the fly/teleport issues in 1e as much simply because there was only one character in the group (most likely anyway) who could do it and there were often better things to memorize than fly. In 5e, it's not unusual for most of the PC's to have some casting abilities and many, many classes get mobility spells. Good grief, even Paladins get Misty Step.

2. The sheer amount of spells that each caster gets. Even the half casters are getting six, seven spells per day by fairly low levels. 5th or thereabouts with a half caster gets you that many spells per day and the full casters have even more. There's very, very little actual cost of having these spells available.

It's all part of 5e being largely Harry Potterverse. Extremely high magic where, unlike earlier editions, you will see the party casting multiple spells per round, every round, of every encounter. Back in the day, you might see one or two spells per combat. Now it's one or two spells per round.

 

[Leatherhead]

Wait, "the bane of cool dungeon design"?

I think you meant to say "the bane of mundane dungeon design".

 

[Hussar]

Wait, "the bane of cool dungeon design"?

I think you meant to say "the bane of mundane dungeon design".

Really? Crevasses, verticality, difficult terrain, locked doors, gates, gate traps, pit traps, chutes, slides, and sink holes are mundane dungeon design?

The problem with the plethora of movement magic is that it pretty much makes all these things little more than a resource tax. Really slippery wall to climb over? No problem, levitate up, spike in a rope and poof the party gets past with nary a die roll. Gate trap drops down, splitting the party in two. No problem, we'll just teleport through the gate and get the party back together again.

I mean, seriously, do you really picture teleporting paladins? Is that a paladin thing? Port-a-Paladin? All it takes is a 5th level paladin. Heck, 2 out of 3 paladins get it for FREE.

Let's not forget here, movement magic used to be limited to one class - Magic Users. Ok, fair enough, extremely high level clerics and druids got some limited movement magic too. Now? EVERYONE gets it. Teleporting Monks too? Sure, I get that monks are kinda/sorta magic ninja types, but, flat out teleport? I mean, a Shadow monk with darkvision is making 7 miles per hour at night - 56 miles/day (well, night) of travel with no terrain modifiers. Nice.

 

[Leatherhead]

Really? Crevasses, verticality, difficult terrain, locked doors, gates, gate traps, pit traps, chutes, slides, and sink holes are mundane dungeon design?

Yes, that's literally what mundane means. Normal things you could find in the normal world are mundane.

 

[Waterbizkit]

Really? Crevasses, verticality, difficult terrain, locked doors, gates, gate traps, pit traps, chutes, slides, and sink holes are mundane dungeon design?

The problem with the plethora of movement magic is that it pretty much makes all these things little more than a resource tax. Really slippery wall to climb over? No problem, levitate up, spike in a rope and poof the party gets past with nary a die roll. Gate trap drops down, splitting the party in two. No problem, we'll just teleport through the gate and get the party back together again.

This is actually a great example of different strokes for different folks, with no one way being better than the other. And to be clear, I'm not implying you were passing judgement on how others play the game.

But anyway, looking at your slippery wall example and speaking only for myself, I'm indifferent about which way the party gets around it. What's lost if party uses transportation magic to get over the wall? A few athletics checks? I don't personally feel that's a loss at all and I don't design dungeons that hinge on the players having to make those checks in order for it to be fun for them or myself. Besides, party composition aside, what would the party do if they didn't levitate or fly up the wall to spike the rope? Oh yeah, send the person with the best athletics skill to climb the wall and spike the rope, making the check nothing but a formality in most cases.

The gate example is a better one, especially if opening the gate involved designing a puzzle for the players and all they do is bampf through it. That can be frustrating. But again, if I want the players to engage with an obstacle I'll take their abilities into account. Some DMs might find that a bit "meta", but used every now and again I don't think it's a bad thing to do, even if I do try to design my dungeons from the perspective of the world it exists in rather than as an exercise in challenging the players.

Anyway, to the thread subject as a whole, I've never had anything I've designed hinge on the characters being held up by a pit, a wall, or some other obstacle. For me that's not the kind of thing that makes or breaks my game, so if the characters use their resources to sidestep these things instead of engaging them, I'm fine with that. Hell, I'm fine with them not expending resources to sidestep this stuff... I happily allow Aarakocra or other races with innate flight or teleportation abilities in my game, I just don't mind it. But! That's me. I get why some people want these things to be a bigger challenge and there's a lot of ways, as others have already pointed out, to do this.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Perhaps D&D is not the game for your vision? Or remove magic and play on.

Tomb of Annihilation has many restrictions due to super lich reasons. As others have said don't nerf your players' abilities too much because they annoy you, the DM, because the game is not all that much about you, the DM, as it is about the players getting to play cool characters.

However it is cool to see players with that alarmed, "Holy Crap, why didn't that work!" look on their faces when they run into the unexpected.

 

[Maialideth]

Misty step requires line of sight and has 30 feet range.
Dimension door requires line of sight or a description - what if that description is wrong?
Teleport circle requires a sigil key
Teleport is a 7th-level spell in 5e (was 5th-level in earlier editions) and has a chance to fail. Also they will have used a 7th-level spell slot, which then is not available for the rest of the day... And what if something is guarding the realm between, which is then pulled through with the teleportation. So spent 7th-level spell and now must face a horrible entity from beyond reality.

Generally, I think players would feel cheated if they aren't allowed to use abilities that are in the Player's Handbook, unless it is agreed upon before the campaign begins. If a player chooses a class, ability, or spell, it is because they want to be able to do those things. Design challenges that allow for creative use of those abilities.

 

[posineg]

5E makes it far to easy (for some style of campaigns) to get these superpowers.

Question: Should these not rather be optional? Your world, your rules. Just remember, the players want to have fun.

How do I restrict these without nerfing certain races / classes?

How do I partially restrict these? Is there stuff like a dimensional anchor in 5E?

Would a sorcerer / FS be totally nerfed if he aint getting these wings? What do I give him instead?

Your world, your rules. Just remember, the players want to have fun.

Is it politically uncorrect not to allow a monk to shadowstep out of any shackles?

The shackles are a item that they are wearing and would shadowstep with them.

If I want to have realistic Donjons and castles in my game do I have to add iron bars on each window and inside locks and bars to tower top trapdoors to prevent PCs shadowstepping or fly-avoiding every basic medieval obstacle versus unwanted entry into a compound?

This is a world of magic, would the owner not think that a magic user would try to break into his/her place? Set up adequate defenses that correlates to the times.

Is that waterfall a mere beauty of nature and perfect scenery of the Teleport X-games or a real obstacle for the PCs?

Again the players want to have fun. You may think your job is to destroy the party but that is not the case. No one wants to play a game that you lose all the time.

Sir Braveinwood the eladrin paladin fearlessly shadowsteps on the back of the hovering Dragon does he have to roll athletics or acrobatics for this?

Sure, why not. If you jumped off the roof of your house would you not need to check your balance? Same for heroes, you just need to remember to write that into your module. Even a DC 15 can be difficult when you roll a 5, and funny.

 

[LordEntrails]

Don't knock it til you've tried it. This is more or less the way I run my campaigns, and I get rave reviews.

Why would you think I was knocking it? I was giving options. The OP can either accept that D&D (RAW) is not the world he envisions, or, he can change it so it is.

 

[77IM]

In practice, I've never seen a session go badly because the players sidestepped a challenge via flight or teleportation. Never. Not even once.