MichaelSomething
Legend
It's not a paladin's job to question why he can teleport, but to use it reach evildoers that need smiting. [emoji14]
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D&D 5E Teleport /fly /misty step the bane of cool dungeon design is RAW in 5E
- Thread starter Coroc
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happyhermit
Adventurer
I think 5e generally did a pretty good job of spelling out some drawbacks of utility magic ie; Knock (noise), Charm (subject knows), etc. so that they exist relatively well alongside non-magical means. There are some things like teleportation that can be a bit too common for my preferences and don't really have much in terms of built in drawbacks. Interestingly, I just noticed that Chris Perkins calls for a LOT of checks and saves around these things, like if someone with low dex misty steps anywhere somewhat precarious they are going to roll. I can see this making sense and balancing things out a bit.
MichaelSomething
Legend
The paladin can't teleport. The Oath of Vengence can teleport. Slight difference. I think people still have the 3e style LG only paladin in their head when they're talking about this. You shouldn't have a classic paladin in your head when you're talking about anything BUT the Oath of Devotion.
Every subclass is a completely different take on a concept. The Avenger is not the same as the knight-in-shinging-armor paladin. They're no more the same than a Light Cleric is the same as the War Cleric. Sure, they have some abilities in common, but the themes, the stories, the abilities they don't have in common make the two think, act, play, and feel utterly different. Trying to just say "cleric" or "paladin" is misleading.
Every subclass is a completely different take on a concept. The Avenger is not the same as the knight-in-shinging-armor paladin. They're no more the same than a Light Cleric is the same as the War Cleric. Sure, they have some abilities in common, but the themes, the stories, the abilities they don't have in common make the two think, act, play, and feel utterly different. Trying to just say "cleric" or "paladin" is misleading.
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Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
2/3 paladin subclasses can cast misty step, not just one...
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2 out of 4
Vengeance and Ancients can, Devotion and Crown cannot.
Redemption is in Xanathar's and it did not have Misty Step in its UA version either.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
Jumping in late here, but who says the game always has to be about heroes doing heroic things? That gets boring real fast... 
Teleporting or dim-dooring onto a moving object (e.g. a flying dragon as mentioned in some earlier posts) realistically ought to require a series of very difficult checks - first, to gauge the distance and trajectory so as to arrive on the moving target at all; then second, whether you can keep your balance or immediately fall off (think about how much trouble some people have even stepping onto a moving walkway - now try appearing on something moving at maybe 30 mph!); then third, whether you can find something to grab on to before the dragon barrel-rolls you off.
As for telepaladins - wtf? And yes: paladins should be knights in armour, even if it's not always shining (i.e. not always LG), otherwise what's the point?
As for dungeon design - I long ago got used to PCs being able to fly and teleport and so forth. Teleport has serious risks and can't usually carry a whole party due to weight restrictions so it doesn't get used that often as a primary transport option. The one spell I had to nerf was plane shift as it can take a whole party and has no risk attached, and parties were using it to leave and return to dungeons on a relative whim. I made it so you could only go to a plane you had previously visited (other than your deity's home plane, you can always go there) and can arrive on any plane at either of your first point of arrival to that plane or at a known temple to your deity. (interesting side effect of this rule: you can always plane shift to your birthplace as that's your first point of arrival on your home world)
Lanefan
Teleporting or dim-dooring onto a moving object (e.g. a flying dragon as mentioned in some earlier posts) realistically ought to require a series of very difficult checks - first, to gauge the distance and trajectory so as to arrive on the moving target at all; then second, whether you can keep your balance or immediately fall off (think about how much trouble some people have even stepping onto a moving walkway - now try appearing on something moving at maybe 30 mph!); then third, whether you can find something to grab on to before the dragon barrel-rolls you off.
As for telepaladins - wtf? And yes: paladins should be knights in armour, even if it's not always shining (i.e. not always LG), otherwise what's the point?
As for dungeon design - I long ago got used to PCs being able to fly and teleport and so forth. Teleport has serious risks and can't usually carry a whole party due to weight restrictions so it doesn't get used that often as a primary transport option. The one spell I had to nerf was plane shift as it can take a whole party and has no risk attached, and parties were using it to leave and return to dungeons on a relative whim. I made it so you could only go to a plane you had previously visited (other than your deity's home plane, you can always go there) and can arrive on any plane at either of your first point of arrival to that plane or at a known temple to your deity. (interesting side effect of this rule: you can always plane shift to your birthplace as that's your first point of arrival on your home world)
Lanefan
KahlessNestor
Adventurer
Oath of Vengeance paladins roll the 4e Avenger into their theme. One of the Avenger's key schticks was that it picked a target and stuck to it, hence the misty step ability of tje Vengeance paladin, as well as the fact it gets Hunter's Mark, another flavor from the Avenger. Avengers didn't have heavy armor though.
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Jumping in late here, but who says the game always has to be about heroes doing heroic things? That gets boring real fast...
Teleporting or dim-dooring onto a moving object (e.g. a flying dragon as mentioned in some earlier posts) realistically ought to require a series of very difficult checks - first, to gauge the distance and trajectory so as to arrive on the moving target at all; then second, whether you can keep your balance or immediately fall off (think about how much trouble some people have even stepping onto a moving walkway - now try appearing on something moving at maybe 30 mph!); then third, whether you can find something to grab on to before the dragon barrel-rolls you off.
I'll agree here. If a pc wanted to teleport onto the back of a dragon, for example, I would say sure, but would require an opposed acrobatics or athletics check.
I love that fact that paladins have been decoupled from the knights in armor trope (at least mostly), and are instead holy warriors of various gods. Why would an wood elf paladin, or a paladin from a desert setting be wearing heavy armor? I was mucking around with a rogue / paladin dex build and was quite pleased with the effectiveness.
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Okay the issue I see here is the one that I ask all the time -- has the GM actually considered what and how magic has effected the world or are they just tossing magic into a "normal" medieval setting and totally discounting its presence and then trying to figure out why things do not work the way they would in real life.
Some folks have already suggested means to address these few issues but I would go further and say that this is only scratching the surface to a much bigger problem that many GMs are not dealing with and that is fully incorporating magic into and throughout their world. For instance, if we look at science as a form of magic (as many folks did at one time) and took a person from the medieval setting and dropped them into the world of today do you think that would turn them on their ear. How would their castle defenses work against todays science? Probably fail pretty miserably just like they do against magic. So instead of thinking prehistoric when thinking about your defenses think modern age technology and then convert that to some kind of magic.
I bet many of you were not aware that around the medieval period they actually had mass production, can you imagine what that would be like if you tossed in a bit of modern age technology in the form of some kind of magic? Can you say a major industrial revolution and how dramatic of a change would that create and the list just goes on and on. So again take a hard long look at magic and then decide how you are going to handle it -- is it rare and if so then yes those individuals that possess it are going to be superheroes (Iron Man, Captain America, etc...) within that world setting -- is it uncommon and it exists in lots of places but mostly for those that are wealthy again those that possess the abilities are going to be like superheroes (or supervillains) to all those that do not possess it -- or is it common and its every where and you have a world that is more like today but fueled with magic rather than technology.
Note just because the players are superheroes in the world does not mean that is a bad thing -- just something you have to take into consideration when you are planning the adventures that you want to roll out.
Some folks have already suggested means to address these few issues but I would go further and say that this is only scratching the surface to a much bigger problem that many GMs are not dealing with and that is fully incorporating magic into and throughout their world. For instance, if we look at science as a form of magic (as many folks did at one time) and took a person from the medieval setting and dropped them into the world of today do you think that would turn them on their ear. How would their castle defenses work against todays science? Probably fail pretty miserably just like they do against magic. So instead of thinking prehistoric when thinking about your defenses think modern age technology and then convert that to some kind of magic.
I bet many of you were not aware that around the medieval period they actually had mass production, can you imagine what that would be like if you tossed in a bit of modern age technology in the form of some kind of magic? Can you say a major industrial revolution and how dramatic of a change would that create and the list just goes on and on. So again take a hard long look at magic and then decide how you are going to handle it -- is it rare and if so then yes those individuals that possess it are going to be superheroes (Iron Man, Captain America, etc...) within that world setting -- is it uncommon and it exists in lots of places but mostly for those that are wealthy again those that possess the abilities are going to be like superheroes (or supervillains) to all those that do not possess it -- or is it common and its every where and you have a world that is more like today but fueled with magic rather than technology.
Note just because the players are superheroes in the world does not mean that is a bad thing -- just something you have to take into consideration when you are planning the adventures that you want to roll out.
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