Tell me about Burning Wheel

[rafial]

Conversely, BW is a game I love precisely because I am incredibly goal oriented. The rules give me tons of tools to go about getting it. Want something? Find creative synergies in what you know how to do. Persuade people to help you. Find people to help you. Gather resources. Set up situations to your advantage. Take your time. Invest your mojo. Then and only then roll the dice.

Yeah, sometimes even after all that preparation, the dice still leave you high and dry, but when you do come out ahead (and if you work at it, its more often than not), you get an enormous sense of accomplishment that just can't be matched otherwise.

And meanwhile your character is learning things, becoming someone different, and making hard decisions about how much they are willing to put on the line for the things they care about. How cool is that?

I think the key discriminator in determining if you will like Burning Wheel is assessing what it is you like about games. If you like mastering rules systems, finding what knobs and levers those rules give you to direct the flow of play to your advantage, and are willing to grab those tools and use them to the fullest, then BW is a hell of a lot of fun, and will produce enormously engaging fiction into the bargain. If you would rather be told what die to roll and when, and dislike engaging with rules, then BW is absolutely not your game.

 

[Dausuul]

The role of the GM is a peculiar one under BW. At times it is directly adversarial, especially in combat, but at other times it is more like You Buddy The GM who is supposed to help you along.

You know, this is how every game I run works.

 

[cr0m]

My two cents about DoW: I love it for the same reasons some people hate it.

I *like* having a framework for roleplaying. I just scripted a Dismiss! Now I have to come up with something dismissive to say--a real put down, or condescending point--and then roll to see if I succeeded in ending the debate. Or I scripted an Avoid the Topic... I better wax philosophical about the history of Elven swordcraft.

Some people think this hems their roleplaying in, but it frees me up *and* ties it into a die roll in a way that's a lot better than 10 minutes of freeform rollplaying (brilliant or not), followed by a Diplomacy check (successful or not).

 

[mmu1]

Conversely, BW is a game I love precisely because I am incredibly goal oriented. The rules give me tons of tools to go about getting it. Want something? Find creative synergies in what you know how to do. Persuade people to help you. Find people to help you. Gather resources. Set up situations to your advantage. Take your time. Invest your mojo. Then and only then roll the dice.

Yeah, sometimes even after all that preparation, the dice still leave you high and dry, but when you do come out ahead (and if you work at it, its more often than not), you get an enormous sense of accomplishment that just can't be matched otherwise.

And meanwhile your character is learning things, becoming someone different, and making hard decisions about how much they are willing to put on the line for the things they care about. How cool is that?

I think the key discriminator in determining if you will like Burning Wheel is assessing what it is you like about games. If you like mastering rules systems, finding what knobs and levers those rules give you to direct the flow of play to your advantage, and are willing to grab those tools and use them to the fullest, then BW is a hell of a lot of fun, and will produce enormously engaging fiction into the bargain. If you would rather be told what die to roll and when, and dislike engaging with rules, then BW is absolutely not your game.

I actually love "mastering rule systems, finding what knobs and levers those rules give you" - and I don't like BW.

 

[cr0m]

Inconceivable! ;P

 

[Woas]

Well... I think BW is a good read. Really makes you think about role-playing and choosing actions that a (your) character actually would do. And the very core task resolution system of the game without any strings attached is nice.

But good golly when I did play the game it felt more like doing many hours of homework... in a subject you absolutely hated. At least IMHO.

But like I said BW is a good read (although the book feels a little unorganized). It definitely changed and impacted the way I play/GM other games today. But all the parts of "the Wheel" really didn't move me.

 

[Aus_Snow]

What Woas said pretty much covers my impressions of BW, as well.

I haven't ever tried running it, but well, I don't want to - that looks like a freaking nightmare.

Was hoping - and even expecting - to like the game, FWIW.

 

[buzz]

I think this is mainly because the rules encourage failure - the assumption goes that Failure = Complications = Drama = Fun.

I disagree with this. BW does not encourage failure. The obstacles (i.e., DCs in D&D lingo) are not skewed towards failing.

What BW does is simply make failure interesting. The player declares their intent, hammers out what the task(s) needed to achieve the intent is, and then rolls. Success = player gets their stated intent; failure = player does not get their stated intent. This allows for lots of juicy, interesting outcomes.

What I will say BW encourages is trying. Skill advancement is tied to attempting tasks across a range of difficulties, regardless of whether your PC succeeds or fails (i.e., they learn from their mistakes).

Anyway...

To paraphrase Ryan Dancey, BW is the greatest FRPG written in the last ten years. IME, it plays amazingly well, and DoW and Fight! rock on toast.

That said... it seems that people either love it or hate it. Since the core rules are only $25, I'd suggest you check it out for yourself.

And follow the guidelines for getting started lain out in the rulebooks! The surest way to get off on the wrong foot with BW is to dive in with a massive campaign where you try to use all the rule systems from the start. Don't do this. Do what the book says. Stick to the core resolution rules (simple tests, Circles, Resources, artha) and get a handle on advancement. Slowly bring in Duel of Wits. Before you do Fight! or Range and Cover, play some sample combats.

And definitely go to the BW website and make use of the great forums and wiki.

 

[half-dragon dragon]

Prolly shoulda replied earlier...anyway, I wanted to thank everyone for their replies. Really gave me a lot to think about. What I gathered earlier was that BW was a game one had to try out to really know whether they'd like it or not. So I went ahead and bought the game, so hopefully I'll get my group to try it out one of these days.

Thanks again all.

 

[SteveC]

I don't think you'll regret it. Even if all you do is read the books, I think it's worth the price of admission to consider what Luke talks about in BW for other games.

That said, I think the game has a fantastic character generation and task resolution system, one that I'd yoink in a second for a home brew game. For me, the Fight! mechanisms are too involved, which is pretty much entirely why I haven't switched to running a campaign based around it.

I also echo the sentiment of going to the website. BW has some of the best "demo" scenarios out there: I ran a version of "The Gift" that was one of the best gaming experiences I have ever had. You definitely want to check that one out!

Good luck,

--Steve